Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
awheel calm down! The issue I think you will find from this site is a high proportion of owners do use their cars off road a few scratches in the black plastic arches are no problem, they aren't really visible, but scratches in colour coded bumpers are an issue because they are very visible. Cars will always be modified especially LRs live with it.
Criticism is never nice, but good design will always draw strong views the perfect car to all people will never be built. Why should an HSE owner have to have these arches, I love the silver D3 HSE I've had 2 and offroaded both, I would not want one like this for practical reasons. It does look better on darker colours and as I said I quite like it, but I wouldn't want one!
The number one design rule is listen to your customers, so what about sorting the EPB issues rather than splashing a bit of paint about?DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
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6th Mar 2008 3:35 pm
simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
I think your over reacting a tad there chap.
In Silver it does indeed look like a worse case scenario.
The option of not having the wheel arches colour coded leaves it open to those that like and those that don't - a good choice to have. Choice to the customer is far better than none at all.
And control of how the vehicle looks - ends after it arrives at the dealer
In Stornoway the new look does indeed not look too bad (although the rear bumper still looks weak in comparison to the current design).
The front (in Stornoway) does not look too bad at all.
As only three of us on the forum (inc yourself) have seen the actual changes in real life, I guess we will have reserve our own personal judgement (as Gareth says) until then.
Having painted surfaces may be easier / cheaper to repair, but will look very unsightly until they are repainted. Most of us don't have the spare cash to keep repairing either off road or on road damage to these panels. Please provide inexpensive off road protection as an option to us - and not the vastly over priced Mantec derived plates.
You only have to be forced into the hedge once on a narrow road for them to get gauged by vegetation or clip the ground / curb to damage the front painted surface. A bad choice for what is supposed to be a real off road vehicle for some.
As for listening... maybe a good read of the forum now and again and some customer clinics with the members here would be good
We have a great cross section of people and requirements here, from off roaders to bling merchants and all those that fit in between.
It is good that someone from LR has responded, dont get me wrong. But please, don't deride us for not 'getting it' when we have been here for over three years just 'getting on with it' with no feedback from the manufacturer.
-s
6th Mar 2008 3:42 pm
Bodsy Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
Sorry to disagree Slimer, but to be fair to awheel, there's some 3,000 registered users, most of the regular contributors (as seen on this post) would prefer the black plastic to keep to it's 'true' identity.
However, there are thousands of others who have no desire to ever take the vehicle anywhere other than Asda carparks & the school run.
It is the thousands of others who will be changing their car more frequently and therefore keep LR in business.
It DOES appeal to a wider audience and those that are not passionate about their LR for it's true LR roots, couldn't give a damn if the black is more or less likely to get scratched than the paint, they like the paint because it changes the size proportions of the 'utilitarian' Discovery.
Personally, I agree that it DOES change the proportions, but is it beter or worse than now is down to individual taste.
I bet that there WILL be people who have the current bumpers who will seek out and change to the newer bumber style.
Fair Play LandRover, keep updating it as you know you need to. The Discovery 3 ISN'T a Defender. A Defender is an iconic image (like the Mini & Beetle) that needs little cosmetic change. A Discovery needs to keep more up to date with the luxury end of the car market and appeal to it's wider audience on a cosmetic level and it's 'hardcore' base on it's technical level.
awheel - You clearly are working inside LandRover (or very closely to the design/marketing teams) . It's really great to see you being so passionate about the Brand and the design.
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Last edited by Bodsy on 6th Mar 2008 3:49 pm. Edited 1 time in total
6th Mar 2008 3:47 pm
slots
Member Since: 30 Oct 2007
Location: Here
Posts: 333
Well said Slimer . If I was the MD of LR and I read alwheels verbal attack I would hunt him down and have him sacked. Also, if this guy is so influential in the design and look of Land Rover why didn't he make sure they didn't have a silver car as the launch model when by his own admission it looks bad.
6th Mar 2008 3:48 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72901
Pelyma wrote:
The number one design rule is listen to your customers, so what about sorting the EPB issues rather than splashing a bit of paint about?
Absoutely! Having just got my D3 back from being in the dealer shop for 6 days again (along with another 5 D3s that have handbrake problems) I'd say to LR "get the basics right, not the whims of fashions cause you will never please everybody all of the time". Whilst it might not put me off buying another LR product, it will others who have a lower acceptance of crap build quality & parts.
Rant Over
6th Mar 2008 4:00 pm
monkey hanger
Member Since: 17 Jan 2008
Location: London
Posts: 291
I guess that complaining about your car breaking down every 5 mins is " oh so predictable"?
My D3 is back at the dealers again after the clutch melted at 14000 miles.
6 weeks into ownership and I've only managed 400 miles without a breakdown.
I've driven all kinds of vehicles in remote parts of the world and there is no way I would take the D3 on a big overland trip or across a desert or to a war zone.
Why are we not hearing people getting excited about technical improvements and problem fixes?
the fuss about the painted plastic bits. The Land cruiser manages with them ok and that is no beauty to look at.
Fix the design flaws.
Make it "utilitarian" by making it reliable."its probably a virus, you'll be right as rain in a few days and if you're playing sport try to favour the other leg"
Ooh, like the multi-coloured approach to quoting. I'll nick that.....
This is all so predictable.....
If it's so predictable, perhaps there ought to be some thought as to how to limit/prevent the reaction, by involving those customers that have really brought into the brand? Or is it the view of LR that conquest sales to customers more easily swayed by ever-changing fashion is a long-term strategy worth pursuing?
Seriously, we like these cars a lot. I've bought into the LR brand hook, line and sinker and would like to keep it that way as regardless of who owns LR, production of these cars secures a hell of a lot of UK jobs.
No desire here to put your heads on spikes, although if you have some suitable spikes available there are a few ramblers and greenpeace types I could point you at....
I can count the number of colour-coded D3s I've seen on the fingers of one hand. Would it not be worth considering offering this colour-coding pack as an option in non-US markets to see what the takeup is like?I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
6th Mar 2008 4:32 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50967
Well if it does turn out that this chap is a member of the Gaydon team then I think he should be thoroughly ashamed to convey what may be reasoned argument from his and LR's perspective in such a poor manner.
I do appreciate the "damned if we do damned if we don't" perspective he is writing from but for, christs sake chap ...don't engage the people that are buying your product in such a negative way if you want to keep them. Tell them that you take on board the criticisms and explain your position...but don't them off eh 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
6th Mar 2008 5:02 pm
Bodsy Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
That's gotta be the most reasoned response we've known from you DG
awheel is a car designer (says so in his profile).....Bodsys Brake Bible
The D3 isn't a car! It's a chariot for the gods I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
6th Mar 2008 5:12 pm
ronp
Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15235
DG wrote:
don't engage the people that are buying your product in such a negative way if you want to keep them. Tell them that you take on board the criticisms and explain your position...but don't them off eh
DG
If I treated my customers in the same way as this LR 'representative',
I wouldn't have a business - FACT!!
6th Mar 2008 5:19 pm
simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
Interesting...
Quote:
...the LR Design ethos was always to allow Disco 3 to be a 'canvas' which could be specced up in various ways... for a more rugged LR look the side strips are available to complement the lamp guards/protection bars etc.
Quote:
...BUT how do you think we felt when we saw the numbers of people bladdering paint over everything????
Quote:
We decided that we had to 'control' the way that body colour was applied - hence the new look which retains a black lower area to ensure that the car is not overly heavy.
All quoted from the same designer... so is it a canvas we as owners can decide how to personalise, or do LR now want control over this ?
Just thought I'd question this
Its also a good job we are not at all passionate about the brand and its products too eh ? or there would be a kind of disjointed feeling going around about how the manufacturer sees its customers
I wonder if any LR staffer is brave enough to actually join in a discussion with members of the forum and listen to them - face to face preferably with maybe a little more insight into some of their reasoning.
Offers there LR.
Some of us have worked / do work for some pretty high profile brand led corporations so you wont be talking to the clueless
awheel, FWIW I read your post in 'forum mode' and not in 'customer mode' so I have no axe to grind with your comments or their manner. This isn't a showroom and you're entitled to post here the way some of the rest of us do.
Damned if you do....... You can't please everybody.......
I see the global picture and I understand that you need to pander to the largest market. People here may like to believe that they represent the majority of D3 ownership but I think we all know that's not the case. I'd be surprised if the UK based disco3.co.uk community are more than 1% of D3 owners in the UK, and I'm sure that there are more D3s in the US than in the UK as a whole.
The car is now 4 years old and I know that means it's time to move forward with the design. I haven't seen anything more than the pictures from Geneva on here so I'm not going to criticise - after all, I'm no designer.
As an SE owner, I have to admit that I don't like the idea of being singled out for 'blingness' without recourse at the time of order. Surely, it would be easy to make the black plastic a no-cost option for us (& the Ruskies) rather than forcing a US stylee motor on us?
As for getting the other niggly problems sorted before throwing paint at it, I understand this is probably nothing to do with you designer folks so no point in moaning about it to you.
BTW, I never owned a D2 because I preferred the D1 The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom
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6th Mar 2008 5:45 pm
BarryG
Member Since: 30 Apr 2006
Location: Eire
Posts: 1333
simon wrote:
- face to face preferably .......
Simon ..... I have your Back ...
While at it if we can get our hands on the tosser who came up with the EPB
we can give him a good shoeing
6th Mar 2008 5:51 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50967
JMC wrote:
and I'm sure that there are more D3s in the US than in the UK as a whole.
Better to rename it 'Rover' then That would really be 'listening'.
If awheel was talking in his car designer mode without making reference to Gaydon ...and therefore LR.. I would agree with you JMC but as soon as the connection is made then we are back to customer mode which ever way you look at it. Would you do it openly on a forum within your own sphere and expect a good reception It's a bit like Gerald Ratner telling you his products are crap ..and his customers are a bunch of c ts. 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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the fuss about the painted plastic bits. The Land cruiser manages with them ok and that is no beauty to look at.
It's a bit like Gerald Ratner telling you his products are crap ..and his customers are a bunch of c 
