As the ad said...
"let the train take the strain"BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
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29th Aug 2016 5:49 pm
Mogwyth
Member Since: 03 Oct 2014
Location: Pwllheli
Posts: 3976
Despite my political leanings I actually have no problem with nationalised services in principle, however I remain to be convinced that the public sector can deliver services on a value for money basis.==================================
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This will mean that the State need np longer bother itself with providing the infrastructure, roads, rail, internet, Hospitals, prisons, water, gas, electricity. Nor the Police, military, fire service, etc.
That will all be done by private finance donated as decided by the people who can now afford to spend the money saved in tax.
It is THEY who will decide who gets what and at what cost - if at all - in a straight market economy. Naturally their RoC will be tax exempt.
Anti - Trust / Monopoly regulation will be abolished as the Market will resolve everything in such areas.
Democratically elected parliaments will wither, except for accepting the status quo defined by the market moguls, and on ceremonial occasions - for the tourists.
Sic Transit Gloria Bourgeois Democracy.
AAA
Not so. In a free market, services are determined by demand, not the charity of the rich.
Neither does it mean there isn't a role for government, democracy and public spending.Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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29th Aug 2016 6:56 pm
Mr.Tom
Member Since: 01 Jun 2014
Location: St Neots
Posts: 1641
So playing devils advocate why don't we also subsidise airlines flying between major cities, as they, the car and rail are competing for business. A free market economy would remove subsidy from all and allow the most efficient to survive.
Obviously there is an historic subsidy which cannot be removed, e.g. Government spend on tracks, roads and airports which differs for each one.
Anyways, seems to have gone a bit off topic away from the original point.... Sill protection - LED internal lights - LED reverse lights - boot liner - Dog Guard - Rock sliders
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29th Aug 2016 7:01 pm
Mr.Tom
Member Since: 01 Jun 2014
Location: St Neots
Posts: 1641
There is also evidence as to what happens when you let the state run all services and have a large unionised work force, see France.
Now, I believe unions serve a purpose in protecting some, but often feel they stretch too far. The state as a sole supplier in an area where competition can be had is not a good thing as competition leads to innovation, generally. There are places where the state can only be the sole supplier, like the police.
In my view, we should let the state focus on what it must provide, policing, etc. But where competition can be had then we should let the private sector do it.
A good example would be maintenance and repair of the roads. The highways agency is a commissioning agent and companies then compete for the work. This drives innovation in pricing, speed, working hours to reduce disruption, etc. It also means they don't have to retain a lot of permenant staff which is inefficient and that labour then actually has a greater economic benefit as it can also be used elsewhere.
Obviously we can all pick holes in bad projects, but my view is it's better like this than the state being the sole provider and employer.
Sill protection - LED internal lights - LED reverse lights - boot liner - Dog Guard - Rock sliders
What you have written above sounds strangely similar to what Margeret Thatcher postulated...a free market economy.....feck the unions...in fact take them on & destroy what was known as manufacturing
What you have quoted from LT " he (Sir Branston in a Pickle) as he prefers to decide for himself who should benefit from his wealth" is priceless...
The ordinary joe on the street would like to decide who benefits.....but has like other to be taxed through PAYE or self assessed
I'd like to decide not to pay taxes too
What you mean is, you'd rather decide how Mr Branston spends his money...
Some people aren't in a position to legally avoid tax - bad luck for them. People pay the minimum tax they legally have to - they are entitled to do so if they feel the money is better not spent via government. It doesn't disappear - it will be spent somewhere else, where that person holds value, and then that person has a choice and so on. Ordinary Joe is exactly who decides where the money is spent. It really doesn't matter if a bit of money is leaked because it all goes back to the same place.Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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29th Aug 2016 7:09 pm
crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011
Re: AAA.Happy.Disco1.fan
BLFarrar wrote:
I'd like to decide not to pay taxes too
Personally from a moral point of view, I don't agree with what you're proposing, but it's not too difficult. Start a company supplying your services and then Google "Dutch Sandwich". 2005 D3 HSE 2011 D4 Landmark 2016 D4 HSE Lux
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I think there is a benefit to be had from nationalising the railways. The current system is only a problem because of mismanagement by the DfT but I think a new viewpoint would be a much needed wake up call. The DfT has a very strange attitude where it has basically become the servant of the TOCs who are perpetually locked into an argument over the fare allocations, and consequantially, the passenger suffers their flexibility.
Open access TOCs should be at the heart of a privatised railway service, but look at what happens - they aren't allowed to be put in competition with the franchise holders, so they struggle to find a profitable service to run. Advance fares work well as there's genuine competition, but the walk up fares are so regulated to provide a cohesive service that the market is stagnant. TOCs are handed a little slice of monopoly by the DfT so it's almost as if we're running a nationalised system already - because nobody denies that we a national system is desirable.
IMO, the railways are not really profitable on their own. Money is being put into the system and taken straight back out - instead, we need to look upon them as a service. Put the money in and don't take it out; leave it and reap the benefits to the economy instead.
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29th Aug 2016 7:31 pm
Mr.Tom
Member Since: 01 Jun 2014
Location: St Neots
Posts: 1641
Fair point, open access TOC would be much better, I.e. Competition on a line, rather than a slice of a monopoly.
I am still not convinced they should be subsidised though... that goes back to the argument there are other methods of transport, perhaps some even in their infancy which would fill the void. The old free market allocation of capitol argument Sill protection - LED internal lights - LED reverse lights - boot liner - Dog Guard - Rock sliders
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29th Aug 2016 8:19 pm
Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
Re: AAA.Happy.Disco1.fan
crews control wrote:
BLFarrar wrote:
I'd like to decide not to pay taxes too
Personally from a moral point of view, I don't agree with what you're proposing, but it's not too difficult. Start a company supplying your services and then Google "Dutch Sandwich".
Alternatively decide which tax you don't want to pay and I'm sure I can help you, completely legally and above board DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
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29th Aug 2016 8:28 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73005
I'll help anybody avoid all taxes. Just send me all your money.
What you mean is, you'd rather decide how Mr Branston spends his money...
No not me society......i.e. the same rules being applied equally & fairly
Lost for Words wrote:
Some people aren't in a position to legally avoid tax - bad luck for them. People pay the minimum tax they legally have to - they are entitled to do so if they feel the money is better not spent via government. It doesn't disappear - it will be spent somewhere else, where that person holds value, and then that person has a choice and so on. Ordinary Joe is exactly who decides where the money is spent. It really doesn't matter if a bit of money is leaked because it all goes back to the same place.
maybe a yacht or two......e.g Greedy GreenBREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
29th Aug 2016 11:21 pm
AAA.Happy.Disco1.Fan
Member Since: 04 Nov 2010
Location: West Yorks
Posts: 2895
Mr.Tom wrote:
So the railways should be renationalised? Whilst fairs have gone up, government subsidy has gone down and they are carrying more passengers and freight than ever before.
I think that you might find that subsidies have TRIPLED (in real terms) since piratization.
..
public money propping up an "entrepreneurs alternative" to a public utility
....nice work when you can get it
I wonder just how much loot Sir Branston Pickle has wormed out of the public purseBREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
30th Aug 2016 12:08 am
Mr.Tom
Member Since: 01 Jun 2014
Location: St Neots
Posts: 1641
AAA.Happy.Disco1.Fan wrote:
Mr.Tom wrote:
So the railways should be renationalised? Whilst fairs have gone up, government subsidy has gone down and they are carrying more passengers and freight than ever before.
I think that you might find that subsidies have TRIPLED (in real terms) since piratization.
..
per passenger, gone down.
Last 3 years gone down 600m
Not looked back further, bet we can both spin the information. Per passenger is perhaps the most interesting
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