Member Since: 06 Jan 2014
Location: Sunny Govano
Posts: 97
astonbuilder wrote:
Sure it's not all one sided either (generally I mean)
Early doors when it kicked off there was only a small crowd of YES voters gathered at one end of the square. The Loyalist guys started gathering in the square chanting loyalist songs and waving loyalist banners. Some scuffles with the small band of YES voters who were out numbered. later more YES supporters or just neds taking their part (I don't know) joined in and things got out of hand.
The Loyalist/Unionist guys were orchestrated though, guys up from down south and across the water also involved.
20th Sep 2014 12:12 am
grahamk
Member Since: 28 Feb 2010
Location: Dumgoyne
Posts: 1473
Just scum bags.3 Flash Indicators
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20th Sep 2014 6:43 am
AAA.Happy.Disco1.Fan
Member Since: 04 Nov 2010
Location: West Yorks
Posts: 2895
Gazellio @ Prestige Cars wrote:
He should of had a "Plan B" any decent Plan B that he believed in could have made a difference.
Problem for him was that a Plan B did not/could not exist. End of story.
Plan B was Devolution Maximus, alias DevoMax.
DevoMax was proposed as the middle way by the SNP, via Mr Salmond
DevoMax would have received an estimated 80% backing from the electorate.
Mr Cameron vetoed DevoMax
DevoMax was vetoed because of the feared backlash in favour of UKIP and Mr Redwood et alia.
DevoMax (Alias Plan B) was promised by Cameron, Miliband and Clegg (CM&C) in what some saw as a last minute sea anchor to stop the Yes-ward slide - it worked.
Some see this as a victory for the SNP.
Some see this as a Pyrrhic victory for Mr Cameron.
The anti-DevoMax backlash has started amidst :
**...Claims that there was no mandate to support the terms offered by Mr Cameron
**...Radically different 'understandings' between CM&C of what actually was offered.
**...Disputes between CM&C as to how the form, content and implementation of, let's call it Devomax, might be decided and brought about.
It may well be an interesting struggle between Messrs Cameron, Miliband, Clegg, Farage, Redwood and Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson in the next months.
The SNP may well relax at Ringside knowing that in the end they will have won at least as much independence as the seldom mentioned 'Northern Ireland' legislature, and that they, and Mr Salmond, will go down in history as possibly leading to a much overdue Federated States of Britain, or as some may see it - Balkan Britain.
We live in 'interesting' times.
20th Sep 2014 7:41 am
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
Seems the protests were over reported with fires, stabbing a etc.
Official police reports show this didn't happen, there were about 100 on each side and it was mostly over by 9pm.
You will always get morons, but it does seem quite a small gathering.
20th Sep 2014 7:58 am
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 14234
From a personal point of view I want to thank JMC, Alex Salmond and the Yes campaign. I didn't agree with them in many ways and voiced my views on their lack of facts and reality, however, I'm incredibly grateful for how this referendum has woken up our politicians and the rest of the UK voting populace from years of apathy and complacency.
The UK needs to look at how the regions are governed and how Westminster is held to account. I really hope that this is the beginning of a new Britain that is more representative, fairer and more dynamic that can harness the skills and resources it has in a more positive and impactful way for all.
20th Sep 2014 9:35 am
robbo770
Member Since: 29 Jan 2013
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 2294
well said Moo,
I was a YES, but your understanding and the proposed reform for the entire UK / N Ireland can only be a good thing, I think we all echo that it cannot be allowed to remain as is as none of the UK population feel that the politicains are held to account.
let us all see together what transpires as the way forward that gets hacked out for all regions of the UK, with tailor needs for addressing the area specific problems allowed for i hope. FFRR SC 4.2
Member Since: 24 Dec 2010
Location: Borders
Posts: 11027
Totally agree with both those sentiments.......I've always wondered what the point of having "local" MP's,who are supposed to represent the views of their constituents.....then when they get to a centralised place,it all gets lost in the bigger mix
Some pretty candid views on the dis-enfranchisement of the people of Berwick,England's most northerly town....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29281107"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool,than to speak out and remove all doubt" ?.....what rubbish...
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20th Sep 2014 10:20 am
crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011
Sod that, now's the perfect time for the English to push for their own referendum!
We deserve a voice too?
20th Sep 2014 10:22 am
sacimiddx
Member Since: 09 Mar 2007
Location: hants
Posts: 2144
yup 53 Million people without a say - needs to changeIllegitimi Non Carborundum
20th Sep 2014 10:28 am
euangibson
Member Since: 24 Dec 2010
Location: Borders
Posts: 11027
Quite a long post,but for anyone convinced that the Scottish Nationalists had the monopoly on passion, have a read of the transcript of Gordon Browns speech,and if it doesn't move you whatever your persuasion you have a heart of stone...I'm not normally a Gordon Brown fan,and I'm not asking the "yes" side to agree necessarily,but it's an extraordinary bit of political rhetoric.....
"The silent majority will be silent no more. And our patriotic vision, proud of our Scottish identity, proud of our distinctive Scottish institutions, proud of the Scottish Parliament that we, not the Nationalist party, created. And proud that with the powers of the Parliament we can guarantee that the National Health Service will be in public hands, universal, free at the point of need, as long and as ever as the people of Scotland want it. And proud also that we are increasing the powers of that Parliament – faster, safer, better, friendlier change than ever the Nationalists could propose. And proud too that we cooperate and share, indeed we Scots led the way in cooperating, sharing across the United Kingdom – common defence, common currency, common and shared rights from the UK pension to the UK minimum wage, from each according his ability to contribute, to each according to his needs. And that is the best principle that can govern the life of our country today. And our patriotic vision up against a nationalist vision that has only one aim in mind: to break every single constitutional and political link with our friends and neighbours in the United Kingdom and we will not have this. The vote tomorrow is not about whether Scotland is a nation; we are, yesterday, today, and tomorrow. It’s not about whether there is a Scottish Parliament; we have it, after a referendum ten years ago. It’s not about whether there are increased powers; we are all agreed to increase the powers. The vote tomorrow is whether you want to break and sever every link and I say let’s keep our UK pension, let’s keep our UK pound, let’s keep our UK passport, let’s keep our UK welfare state.
And let us tell the undecided, the waverers, those not sure how to vote, let us tell them what we have achieved together. We fought two world wars together. And there is not a cemetery in Europe that does not have Scots, English, Welsh, and Irish lying side-by-side. And when young men were injured in these wars, they didn’t look to each other and ask whether you were Scots or English, they came to each other’s aid because we were part of a common cause. And we not only won these wars together, we built the peace together, we built the health service together, we built the welfare state together, we will build the future together. And what we have built together by sacrificing and sharing, let no narrow nationalism split asunder ever.
And let us tell also those people who have been told unfairly by the nationalists that, if you vote No, you are a less than patriotic Scot. Tell them this is our Scotland. Tell them that Scotland does not belong to the SNP, Scotland does not belong to the Yes campaign, Scotland does not belong to any politician – Mr Salmond, Mr Swinney, me, or any other politician – Scotland belongs to all of us. And let us tell the nationalists this is not their flag, their country, their culture, their streets. This is everyone’s flag, everyone’s country, everyone’s street.
And let us tell the people of Scotland that we who vote no, love Scotland and love our country. The Scotland of the Enlightenment and the Scottish inventors. The Scotland that was the author of the right to work here in Glasgow and the right to free healthcare. The Scotland that helped build the economic laws of this country, the welfare state of this country and contributed to the development of international aid. And do you know all these achievements and all the more achievements I can mention, these happened not outside the Union but inside the Union. They happen not in spite of the Union but because of the Union. And none of us is any less a Scot as a result of it.
And let us tell these people who have still got doubts and are wavering, people who were thinking of voting Yes yesterday but could be persuaded today. Let us tell them about the real risks. This is not the fear of the unknown, this is now the risks of the known. An economic minefield where problems could implode at any time. An economic trapdoor down which we go from which we might never escape. Real risk one: the uncertainty about the currency, unaddressed by the SNP. Real risk two: the default from debt that they threaten, unaddressed by the SNP. Real risk three: having to build 30 billion of reserves at the cost of the NHS and the welfare state, unaddressed by the SNP. Real risk four: prices rising in the shops, unaddressed by the SNP. Real risk 5: interest rates and mortgage rates going up, unaddressed by the SNP. Real risk six: a million jobs dependent on our trade and our membership of the UK shipbuilding finance, all the problems unaddressed by the SNP. And real risk seven: a massive financial hole that cannot be made up, even a fraction of it, by oil revenues. A massive financial hole that means the risk to the National Health Service does not come from us, it comes from the policies of the Scottish National Party.
But let us tell people, who are aware now of the risk but think somehow Scotland would be somehow more progressive under the Nationalists. Let us tell them of our vision of the future of Scotland, not the Scotland of insults and abuse and threats and recriminations. The Scotland of Adam Smith and John Smith, the Scotland of civility and compassion, the Scotland of comradeship and community is bigger and better than what we have seen. Tell the people of our vision of the future of Scotland. Yes, a strong Scottish Parliament for fairness, battling for equality across the United Kingdom, but our vision is bigger than that. At every point in every place at every time, particularly through our membership of the United Kingdom, to fight for what is our instinct, what is our dream, what is our demand. A world not of a separate state, but a world of social justice that people can believe in.
And you know, what sort of message would we in Scotland send out to the rest of the world, we the people who found a way of cooperation across borders, we who pioneered a partnership between nations, we who have stood as a beacon for solidarity and sharing? What kind of message does Scotland send to the world if tomorrow we say we’re going to give up on sharing, we’re going to smash our partnership, we’re going to abandon cooperation and conflict and we’re going to throw the idea of solidarity into the dust? This is not the Scotland I know and recognise and we must make sure it is not the Scotland we become.
Now tomorrow the vote I will cast is not for me. It is for my children. It is for all of Scotland’s children. It is for our children’s future. And you know, when the SNP say now is the time and now is the moment? And yet the decision is irreversible. Are they not forgetting one thing? That this is not a decision just for this time: this is a decision for all time. This is a decision that cannot be reversed or undone. This is a decision from which there is no going back. This is a decision when once it’s done, it’s done. And so I say I have to vote and take account of the needs of my children and future generations and the future of our country in centuries to come. And if you have any doubts about unanswered questions, if you have any doubts and doubts that have been unrecognised by the SNP, if you have still problems with what they’re saying, then if you’re thinking of the future of Scotland and if you don’t know, the answer has to be no.
And if you’re like me and a million more people who are convinced that the case for cooperation is greater than any case put for separation then I say to you: hold your heads high. Show dignity and pride. Be confident. Let us have confidence that our values are indeed the values of the majority of the people of Scotland. That our principles of sharing and cooperation are far better and mean more to them than separation and splitting apart. Have confidence that people know that our Scottish Parliament and its new powers give people the powers they need and meet the aspirations of the Scottish people. Have confidence, stand up and be counted tomorrow. Have confidence tomorrow and have confidence enough to say with all our friends: we’ve had no answers. They do not know what they are doing, they are leading us into a trap. Have confidence and say to our friends: for reason of solidarity, sharing, justice, pride in Scotland, the only answer for Scotland’s sake and for Scotland’s future is vote No."Better to remain silent and be thought a fool,than to speak out and remove all doubt" ?.....what rubbish...
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20th Sep 2014 10:29 am
ronp
Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15258
Well, it didn't take long for the SNP to start the rhetoric of the Union "breaking its promises"
11.28am BST SNP: Better Together breaking promises
The Scottish National Party has accused the no campaign of ‘failing to keep its promises’ on more powers for Scotland.
A statement just issued by the SNP says that the Better Together promised that: ‘A day after the No vote, the timetable for further powers will be published as a motion before the UK parliament. All UK parties will support this motion.’ No motion has been published, says the party.
Bruce Crawford, an SNP member of the Scottish assembly, said:
Scots who chose to vote No on Thursday were told they were voting for more devolution, so where is the missing motion?
It doesn’t bode well for us that the No campaign - Labour, the Lib Dems and the Tories - have failed to keep their first promise.
The first part of the three Westminster Leader’s ‘vow’ is already broken. Neither the 55% who voted for it, or the 45% who voted Yes, will let this go.
Updated at 11.29am BST
edited to remove a derogatory descriptive word - apologies...... always on the road less travelled 🚧
Last edited by ronp on 20th Sep 2014 12:09 pm. Edited 1 time in total
20th Sep 2014 11:51 am
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
They were part of creating that timetable as well, seems odd that they are not saying what is causing the delay.
Given that almost 62% didn't express a wish to leave, surely they should be focussing on working together.
20th Sep 2014 11:54 am
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72967
Won't be long til they say it was all fixed. Russian observers are saying it wasn't up to standards, WTF, are we seriously expected to take a lecture from the Russians on democracy? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-27...m-big.html
Re the SNP, in DT style:
YOU LOST, GET OVER IT!!!
20th Sep 2014 11:57 am
robbo770
Member Since: 29 Jan 2013
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 2294
If we are meet to moving forward I think a more reserved tone even on this forum would be advisable.........
20th Sep 2014 12:08 pm
ronp
Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15258
On a lighter note:
Just dawned on me that if the Yes vote went ahead I would need to invest in new number plates!
Thank goodness I didn't realise that on 'the night' or I wouldn't have slept
But, it does say what I consider my nationality to be: as a resident of this planet.
a member of the European union
a citizen of Great Britain
a born Scot
The further down the list, the more important the status is to me....... always on the road less travelled 🚧
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