Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
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JMC wrote:
On the 1st February 1993, formal negotiations began for Finland, Sweden, Norway and Austria to join the EU. By the summer of 1994 everything was signed and sealed. Scotland, already being fully compliant with EU law etc, would find it even easier than Norway.
Seeing as we are dealing with facts, would now be the moment to mention that Norway is not in the EU? Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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18th Feb 2014 2:41 pm
bigdave Site Sponsor
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
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Norway is an EFTA country.
It has an agreement with the EU for trade but basically wont join the EU so they keep their fish stocks well away from Spanish and French trawler fleets!!!
Oh and they own a huge chunk of off shore oil and gas. All things shipping, storage, transport. UK and worldwide.
Unfortunately JMC for every intelligent post you have put up, you have then spoilt it by putting something that just doesn't reflect that intelligence.
Thank-you for asserting that I have made some intelligent posts. I can't apologise for my lack of consistency in this respect, as I only said that I wasn't stupid. I do not claim to have all the answers - only a modicum of pragmatism which is sadly lacking from the No side of the debate.
Jward wrote:
Your analogy of parent and child for me is very wrong as the child didn't enter into debt as a joint beneficiary. The analogy should be a married couple with a mortgage then getting divorced and the one (Scotland) wanting to just walk away from the marriage and be single again but believing that they should have no responsibility for the mortgage.
If you take the words in a legal context, 'Scotland' has never entered into a debt agreement - only the UK has. Unlike a marriage (where both parties sign to be joint and severally liable), there is no 'share' of the debt unless there is consensus on both sides. The Yews side has never offered to walk away - unlike the No side which has said they will honour all the debt themselves. The UK incurred the debt, the UK will continue to be liable. I think Alex Salmond has been entirely reasonable (and even neighbourly/friendly) to suggest that Scotland will take a representative share of the debt.
Jward wrote:
If you think your whiskey trade is enough to sustain the economy... Oh dear I do fear for Scotland.
Whisky is probably the best known of Scotland's manufactured products, but it's by no means the only one. Global exports have increased by 87% in the past decade and it contributes over £4.25billion to the UK economy, making up a quarter of all its food and drink revenues. It is also one of the UK's overall top five manufacturing export earners. That's top five across 65 million people - not just top 5 in Scotland. It's a market that's set to continue to rise, especially in China and it's one that cannot be taken from us by a competitor. As a businessman, I'd buy shares in 'Scotland Ltd' in a heartbeat but I'd be very wary of an unshared £ Sterling.The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom
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Last edited by JMC on 18th Feb 2014 2:54 pm. Edited 1 time in total
Seeing as we are dealing with facts, would now be the moment to mention that Norway is not in the EU?
Oh please Mr Highlands, you started so well and now you are failing to answer the important points whilst bringing the level of retort down to the Westminster jibes. We all know that Norway is a EFTA member of the EU.The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom
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18th Feb 2014 2:54 pm
sacimiddx
Member Since: 09 Mar 2007
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Quote:
We all know that Norway is a EFTA member of the EU.
wish we were only that !Illegitimi Non Carborundum
18th Feb 2014 3:08 pm
KenR
Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Argyll Scotland
Posts: 331
Regarding whisky being taken from Scotland by a competitor, I believe that the UK thought that about motor bikes and Germany thought that about cameras. England, Wales, India (and I have no doubt China will soon) all make whiskey. As a businessman you should know that no product can be guaranteed to be yours for life
Regarding whisky being taken from Scotland by a competitor, I believe that the UK thought that about motor bikes and Germany thought that about cameras. England, Wales, India (and I have no doubt China will soon) all make whiskey. As a businessman you should know that no product can be guaranteed to be yours for life
Unfortunately for the opposing side of the argument, I regret to point out that you are entirely wrong. 'English Whiskey' is not 'Scotch Whisky', never has been and never can be. Scotch Whisky is the real thing and (unlike Coke) can only ever be produced in Scotland - so it is indeed guaranteed. Whilst other items may be geographical in nature and yet can be produced around the globe, 'Scotch Whisky' is enshrined in geography by international law. The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom
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I'm still trying to imagine the airport queues for Cheddar George Whiskey or Manchester Ship Canal Single Malt.
How about the liquid nectar than flows from Henley on Thames.
We could call it Borris-Pi$$!!
Sorry, I have fallen out of my ivory tower now and brought the level of debate back to sarcasm.......
Normal service will resume shortly....... The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom
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18th Feb 2014 3:22 pm
KenR
Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Argyll Scotland
Posts: 331
Germany once had the world market for cameras with Zeiss, Leica etc. They still make some but have lost the market to Canon and Nikon, which you may or may not say are inferior. The same could happen to whisky, after all the taste depends on the barrel and that is Spanish or American.
18th Feb 2014 3:29 pm
grahamk
Member Since: 28 Feb 2010
Location: Dumgoyne
Posts: 1473
Disco_Mikey wrote:
JMC wrote:
A 'Yes' vote on 18th September, in itself changes nothing. We shall all remain UK and EU citizens, pay our taxes to that nice Mr Osborne
On a subsequent Independence day, if the EU member states (including the UK government, but not of course the not-yet-existent Scottish Government) have not put in place transition arrangements, then chaos will reign - the legal framework for all commercial agreements and contracts between parties in Scotland and in other parts of the EU (including rUK) having been vaporized as midnight struck.
I, for one, would like to know what happens BEFORE we should have to go independent
Whether we will have the £ or not
Whether we will be in Europe
etc
Seems a bit odd, that they want the country to decide to be independent, or stay in the UK, before the rest of the country will actually know what is going to happen
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18th Feb 2014 3:35 pm
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
JMC wrote:
countrywide wrote:
JMC wrote:
Will you still be leaving a more socially just, emerging country, one where we look after people instead of spending 3x more per head than EU average on weapons?
How do you work that out, based on reality or what you have been promised. It's also a slightly arrogant assumption as well.
I'm sorry if you think I'm being arrogant but I'm unsure of where you see this. The reality is an EU average spending per capita (excluding UK) of about €300 on defence, compared with €700 here. (I should apologise - that's not 3x more, but it is more than double!). 'More socially just' is because we want to look after our old people and guarantee an education for our children. This is where our priorities lie and we have been able to do this at the moment, within the constraints of a balanced budget, whilst still paying too much to Westminster.
Interesting perspective as Scotland benefits from a lot of that spending in terms of income. Also don't forget Scotland is part of the UK and it's defence decisions. You can't pick and choose the bits you can blame the UK for.
Many Scottish people support it, so who is to say it will reduce in Scotland. We also still have overseas territories to support until they take over totally themselves.
When I say arrogance, I mean you make statements based on what you believe will happen as a result of independence and that everything will be better than the bad selfish UK people. Believe me your politicians will be no different
Germany once had the world market for cameras with Zeiss, Leica etc. They still make some but have lost the market to Canon and Nikon, which you may or may not say are inferior. The same could happen to whisky, after all the taste depends on the barrel and that is Spanish or American.
If you imagine the globe as a high-street of shops, each country having it's own store. An American, a Chinese man, an Indian and a Russian will all look down the street, see the Scottish shop and know that's where to get SCOTCH WHISKY.
For me, I'd look at the high street and go to Japan for a Camera (my other hobby is photography and I'm a Canon man). I would only look to the Germany shop for perhaps Automobiles, though they are not innately German.......
Perhaps, you should be asking yourself, what would these gentlemen be looking for when the saw the shop with the St Georges Cross waving outside?
I'm struggling to think of anything that's quintessentially English other than things I wouldn't want to buy. I've no need for a stiff upper lip, Pimms, or a parliament full of Bullingdon Boys. I may once have said Stainless Steel but not so much these days. Wedgewood or Denby (or is that Wales)?
Go on...... ask yourself what is England to the rest of the world market?The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom
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I, for one, would like to know what happens BEFORE we should have to go independent
Whether we will have the £ or not
Whether we will be in Europe
Seems a bit odd, that they want the country to decide to be independent, or stay in the UK, before the rest of the country will actually know what is going to happen
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Then you heard it here first! The day after a yes vote (19/09/14) you will still have the pound and you will still be in the EU - GUARANTEED.
It's the discussions after the vote that will decide a long-term future BUT, Westmister don't want to face up to this until it happens, so they will simply scare-monger in the hope of a NO vote.
EVERYTHING that's being discussed and shouted about in the press will be up for negotiation after a YES vote. ALL the Westminster politicians will be back-tracking whilst being scrutinised by the wider world. They will be unable to bully the Scots when the world is watching (which it really isn't just now).
In the event of a NO vote, EVERYTHING about Scotland will still be up for debate in Westminster with no real representation of Scottish interests. The entire Labour bunch have agreed to pursue the case for the union - even if independence will see their constituents better off.
I forecast a £4,000,000,000.00 cut in the Scottish block grant and no chance of another referendum for fifty years.
You (in Scotland) may like to shout about the uncertainty of voting Yes, but I'll wager that you haven't once thought about the uncertainty of a No vote.......
In fact, there is no uncertainty about a No vote. Scotland is all but guaranteed to be worse off. Turkey/Christmas comes to mind. The positive policies which affect us just now will not be able to be maintained when our funding is cut by Westminster. AND IT WILL BE CUT!The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom
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18th Feb 2014 3:53 pm
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Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
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Salmond has to think of some practical arrangements for his coronation
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5098
JMC wrote:
I'm struggling to think of anything that's quintessentially English other than things I wouldn't want to buy. I've no need for a stiff upper lip, Pimms, or a parliament full of Bullingdon Boys. I may once have said Stainless Steel but not so much these days. Wedgewood or Denby (or is that Wales)?
Go on...... ask yourself what is England to the rest of the world market?
We play to our strengths eh!?
Scotch Whisky industry reckoned to be worth c.£4bn GVA to the UK annually.
England has most of the UK's motorsport engineering, reckoned to be worth c.£6bn GVA a year.
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) 
The reality is an EU average spending per capita (excluding UK) of about €300 on defence, compared with €700 here. (I should apologise - that's not 3x more, but it is more than double!). 'More socially just' is because we want to look after our old people and guarantee an education for our children. This is where our priorities lie and we have been able to do this at the moment, within the constraints of a balanced budget, whilst still paying too much to Westminster.
