Member Since: 04 Jan 2023
Location: Essex
Posts: 608
How much is this an issue for manual gearbox vs autos?
Generally speaking autos don't tend to be so hard on the engine as the rev range/torque loading is smoother.A visitor from the dark side, my other vehicle is an MG5 EV
15th Feb 2023 5:38 pm
Shamrock
Member Since: 16 Jun 2022
Location: South Kerry
Posts: 113
Very relevant question. I've noted that when cold starting the car, the auto gearbox seems to manage to avoid too low or too high revs in order (I guess) to make the engine running on his best revs/torque ratio.
15th Feb 2023 6:18 pm
ClassikFan
Member Since: 02 Nov 2016
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1045
Disco_Mikey wrote:
I am genuinely interested what research they (Christian + Vera) have done to decide that 5W40 is better than 5W30 (or even the 15W40 the manual also says can be used)
Given the million of £££'s of spending JLR/PSA have done, on top of the thousands upon thousands of miles of testing, 1 man on the interweb has an opinion, and spouts it as fact
So we trust the word of JLR's testing and research on oil while we know they can release the final model version (2016) of a12 year old design with worse lights headlights than they started out with and a heater that doesn't work properly. Just saying....Just 'cause you got the power... that don't mean you got the right.
18th Feb 2023 12:48 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10562
What is wrong with the 2016 heater ?
HairyFool wrote:
How much is this an issue for manual gearbox vs autos?
Generally speaking autos don't tend to be so hard on the engine as the rev range/torque loading is smoother.
Some people blame failing automatic torque convertors for crank failures.
18th Feb 2023 1:28 pm
ClassikFan
Member Since: 02 Nov 2016
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1045
Pete K
Post #2327128Posted: 18th Feb 2023 12:28 pm Post subject:
What is wrong with the 2016 heater ?
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 769
Has JLR ever admitted there is an issue with the cranks ? If so then surely they would have investigated why.... or is it far easier to simply say no issues here, then take the knock on a few engine replacement's that happen to still be under warrantee.
18th Feb 2023 2:51 pm
Murtovaara
Member Since: 09 Jun 2021
Location: Sumiainen
Posts: 43
An interesting thread that is very disturbing. Why the aggressive hostility against LR Time?
We’re all different and Christian & Vera have their personal way of presenting things and I
really would like you who sneer at them to tell here why?
They make quite in-depth videos and anybody with basic technical skills can do most of
the repairs they show. Christian is way above the average DIY mechanics and he take
the time to explain what his does and why. So far I have not caught any real errors in
the work they do, I don’t pretend to be an expert, so can you point out some errors,
that would justify the blaming, please?
I’m extremely grateful to you all that unselfishly and openly share your knowledge
about these quite complicated, but great cars.
A big thank you!
It’s understandable that if you run a business, working on others cars then you
should go by the book, if LR say to do something some way, you do that way.
I know so much about tribology (fancy word for lubrication) that quite many here
express an opinion with the certainty of complete ignorance.
Modern engine oils are not an easy task (not to mention all other lubricants) and
I will not go in the debate about 5W30 versus 5W40, but one should be careful,
the newest oil is not always the best oil. Viscosity is just one thing as Christian
also point out. We tend to just stare at the viscosity numbers, when actually
the other factors are more important.
For example the ZDDP is needed in old engines with sliding surface, like flat tappets.
The ZDDP level in modern oils can be quite low because of the catalytic converters.
I know one example where a car manufacturer who specify one major brand of oil,
but prohibit the use of the newest of that brand oil in pre 2017 car.
I’m not native English so expressing myself in English is not so simple, apologize for the errors.
My intention is and has never been to insult anybody and if someone feel so after this, I apologize.
18th Feb 2023 3:24 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13894
jenseneverest wrote:
Has JLR ever admitted there is an issue with the cranks ? If so then surely they would have investigated why.... or is it far easier to simply say no issues here, then take the knock on a few engine replacement's that happen to still be under warrantee.
Hi
Have only seen this , plus believe in Japan they replace them FOC without question, will see if I can find the info
Land Rover Discovery TDV6 engine failures making headlines
Land Rover Discovery 3 owners for some time now have had some worrying questions about the popular TDV6 engine used in the Land Rover Discovery 3. Sudden catastrophic engine failures linked with broken crankshafts have happened often on vehicles in South Africa, UK and Australia.
With such wide range and frequency of occurrences it seems to point to the engine design and construction rather than servicing. Forums like 4x4community and Disco3.co.uk have had many threads on this topic.
In 2014 there was some confirmation of this problem when Land Rover published a Service bulletin SSM71816 CRANKSHAFT/CRANKSHAFT BEARING CONCERNS - TDV6 DIESEL ENGINE. According to the bulletin the issue and action is as follows:
Low incidence of crankshaft failure are being encountered, caused mainly by incorrect location of the main bearing shells during assembly, or through rotation of the shells during normal use. A new procedure has been implemented to ensure:
- more rapid resolution of customer concerns, and
- greater visibility of failure modes in order to improve repair process and parts delivery.
Action:
For any suspected crankshaft/bearing failure, please contact your local Dealer Technical Supportor FRED team for details of the enhanced customer handling procedure.
The list below summarises typical symptoms of crankshaft/bearing failure, but please contact your DTS/FRED team if in any doubt as they will be pleased to offer assistance:
· Crankshaft is seized, engine cannot be turned either via starter motor or crankshaft pulley bolt.
· Oil sump or engine cylinder block is holed, with oil leakage and/or metallic debris found on engine under-tray.
· Engine makes a loud ‘rumbling/knocking’ sound when running which worsens as the engine is placed under load. The engine oil pressure warning light may flash or be continuously illuminated, especially at low engine speeds."
A recent article on iol.co.za titled Unease grows over Land Rover engine, highlights the problem and refers to the efforts by one owner to seek compensation from Land Rover after laying a claim with the Motor Industry Ombudsman.
"Land Rover Discovery owner Margot Birbeck has laid a complaint with the Motor Industry Ombudsman after a specific crankshaft bearing in her vehicle’s engine failed, causing the engine to seize.
Birbeck claimed that she had discovered that “hundreds of Land Rover engines” were failing as a result of the fault, which was ascribed to the incorrect location of the main bearing shells during assembly, or through rotation of the shells during normal use.
Models impacted included the Discovery 3 and 4, Range Rover and Range Rover Sport, Birbeck said. This was confirmed by Jaguar Land Rover South Africa."
The majority of vehicles affected by this problem are already out of warranty, especially all the Land Rover Discovery 3 models that were replaced in 2009 by the Discovery 4 model. This leaves owners in a precarious position being out of warranty and most often having left the formal service network for independent service centers.
The question is does it matter? If it is a design or assembly fault then it needs to be fixed regardless? That is what you would expect from a leading profitable brand like Land Rover who rightly and proudly celebrates the fact that the majority of Land Rovers ever built
18th Feb 2023 5:17 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13894
Apologises it was Korea regarding a recall
Click image to enlarge
18th Feb 2023 5:49 pm
MGO
Member Since: 26 Feb 2011
Location: Ireland
Posts: 21
Disco_Mikey wrote:
Christian and Vera need to stop these BS videos
A lot of it is "in their opinion" after a few minutes research on Google.
Prime example is their recommendation of 5W40. Based on an oil pressure test after an oil change with 5W40. If they had changed it with 5W30, they would have seen an increase in pressure too
But they are happy to ignore thousands of hours and millions of pounds of lab testing, and people just lap it up
100%
i love their channel and it is great entertainment as long as you know what you are listening to.
when they talked about 5w-40 he referred to south africa.... sure why not since the temps there are much higher.
the only thing that matters in all these tdV6 engines was to do oil change at half distance. very knowledgeable man told me the first day i owned one.
19th Feb 2023 7:27 pm
Shamrock
Member Since: 16 Jun 2022
Location: South Kerry
Posts: 113
So, if a "very knowledgeable man" advises you something different than LR manual without any proof, you trust him. But if it's a German engineer with proof, you don't...
20th Feb 2023 11:11 am
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 14188
New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
20th Feb 2023 1:28 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20787
Shamrock wrote:
So, if a "very knowledgeable man" advises you something different than LR manual without any proof, you trust him. But if it's a German engineer with proof, you don't...
Member Since: 09 Jun 2021
Location: Sumiainen
Posts: 43
Very quiet about why the aggressive hostility against LR Time by several members here.
So far nobody have displayed errors in what they present on their YouTube channel.
Why should they stop the alleged BS videos? Where is the BS in them? A curious mind
would like to know. Or is this all about envy?
I’ve been also recommended by 2 technicians who work with Land Rovers to change
the oil in our Disco 4 more often, about 10 kkm, or what LR recommend for some
countries 13 kkm, the 26 kkm is very long.
Probably some of the service interval numbers from LR are not technically based.
Service intervals for new cars are very long and probably because of competition
everybody are forced to follow.
Wondering why there is no discussions about oil analysis. How the oil have survived
when it has been used for 26kkm, is it still good?
Instead of debating about the 5W30 versus 5W40, nobody has bought up the to me quite
mysterious ZF 8HP oil change interval. This transmission is widely used in various cars,
to my understanding, mechanically “same” (Chrysler is an exception), but with car specific
operational variations.
ZF say oil & filter change 80 kkm – 120 kkm or 8 year, our Disco 4 service schedule say 234 kkm?
Wouldn’t you expect that the transmission manufacturer would have the best knowledge to say
when the unit need to be serviced?
20th Feb 2023 4:29 pm
MGO
Member Since: 26 Feb 2011
Location: Ireland
Posts: 21
Shamrock wrote:
So, if a "very knowledgeable man" advises you something different than LR manual without any proof, you trust him. But if it's a German engineer with proof, you don't...
Qualified engineer myself German or otherwise makes no difference.
FYI, technician/mechanic is not an engineer and visa versa
very knowledgeable man = Parts & Service Manager Landrover for 20 years and a trained Mechanic also.
advise to half the service interval for engine oil change from 24k to 12k was not hard to appreciate.... i was already doing it anyway. however, always good to hear from the guys that know on the frontline.
As Disco Mikey said, if they had changed to fresh 5w30 oil in the service video they would have seen better engine signals also.
My last RRS 2007 2.7 tdv6 went over 360000 km in my ownership (and self serviced) before I moved on to a 2012 3.0 tdV6 ... i'll take real life experience over 20 minutes youtube any day.
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