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martindg
Member Since: 24 Jun 2015
Location: Werrington, Staffordshire
Posts: 44
  
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Today i took the plastic guard off below the gearbox to allow me put the microphones around the transmission.
First put one in the front wheel arch on the heat shield by the turbo where I got loudest noise yesterday, then I put one either side the bellhousing and one on the transfer box. I can't say I heard the noise on any on the transmission, but there is a lot of background noise (bearings and gears I guess) so maybe it was drowned out. There was a slight clonk i heard on the passenger side of the bellhousing when going on and off the throttle, maybe like play in something, but it wasn't very distinct.
I moved the microphones off the transmission itself but in similar places nearby to try and reduce the background noise, which worked, I could faintly hear the noise from the two near the bellhousing but much quieter than the one in the wheel arch.
So nothing very conclusive there I'm afraid.
I will try and remove the heatshield in the wheel arch and try at different places round there to see what I get.
I can only get the noise to happen when the transmission is in drive, if I slip it (carefully!) into neutral, it does not happen, so I'm thinking its something in the transmission or something else on the engine that only happens when drive is selected?
Its very frustrating, but the noise will have to get a lot worse before I shell out on an autobox or torque converter without more certainty it will cure it.
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 9th Sep 2015 5:03 pm |
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nick2506
Member Since: 22 Nov 2005
Location: Chesterfield
Posts: 27
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I have have the same intermittent noise, observed from new, almost 10 years ago.
I very much suspect chattering variable pitch turbo vanes or linkage.
The sound being present is so dependant on throttle position, revs, engine load etc, that to me think it is under direct control of the engine ECU and not a faulty or worn item.
if the turbo actuator position angle could be monitored ? I'm sure it would give clues to when the noise present.
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| 10th Sep 2015 9:33 pm |
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martindg
Member Since: 24 Jun 2015
Location: Werrington, Staffordshire
Posts: 44
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My friend with the same noise was convinced of the same thing after a gearbox specialist told him his gearbox was OK and it was the turbo.
You can imagine how gutted he is after having it replaced last weekend and the noise hasn't changed.
I think it's definitely loudest in the vicinity of the turbo, but other than that I'm not sure, other people say it stopped after changing the gearbox other torque converter, very frustrating to not have a definitive answer especially as any of these costs a load of dosh.
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| 10th Sep 2015 9:44 pm |
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martindg
Member Since: 24 Jun 2015
Location: Werrington, Staffordshire
Posts: 44
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I went into my local Land Rover main agents and had a chat with the service manager about about this noise, I played him the recording but he reckons no one has every brought a car into them with this problem, seems strange considering how may people appear to have it.
He didn't think it would be a turbo or gearbox, the only suggestion he could come up with was the exhaust cross over pipe above the gearbox could have crack in a concertina section or something, but i have tried a microphone at rear of the engine directly above where that would be an couldn't really hear the noise at all in that location.
Yesterday I moved the turbo heat shield in the near side wheel arch out of the way (I couldn't actually get it out altogether), I put a microphone at the front of the turbo, one at the side of the turbo and one on the chassis at the rear of the turbo, the loudest noise came from that at the rear of the turbo, but it didn't sound really loud like it was very close to the source.
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| 12th Sep 2015 3:52 pm |
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martindg
Member Since: 24 Jun 2015
Location: Werrington, Staffordshire
Posts: 44
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Last night I removed the sump guard and put 3 microphones around the bellhousing and 1 on the gearbox sump.
The loudest source of the noise I have located so far was from a microphone in the hole at the bottom of the bellhousing, I removed a rubber grommet to gain access to this hole.
I could also hear a light tap when I blipped the throttle, like something taking up and releasing play.
I guess this suggests the most likely source is the torque converter, but maybe it could also be something at the front end of the gearbox?, however I couldn't hear the noise on the gearbox sump.
I'll ask my friend with the same problem on his disco to do the same check and confirm his is loudest there as well.
I'm not sure what to do next, I'm loath to just get the torque converter changed to see if the noise disappears, it's too expensive for that, and the noise is more of an annoyance than anything else, I get no other symptoms. However I wouldn't want the auto box to get knackered by a problem. Can anybody recommend a knowledgeable auto transmission specialist near Stoke-on-Trent I could contact about it.
Derek.
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| 16th Sep 2015 6:52 am |
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MattTheTall77
Member Since: 24 Oct 2013
Location: Lincs
Posts: 268
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It's the possible impact on the auto box why I want to see about getting the torque converter looked at sooner rather than later (it started shuddering shortly after I bought it). Just worried that the auto box may also need doing, head in the sand I know, but already spent near £3k since buying it last year sorting issues, plus it needs injectors looking at eventually. So the TC I could manage, a TC and gearbox, that would sting a bit.
I'm planning on having a chat to Martin Lowe in Barnsley in the next few weeks, may take a day off and pop up to see him and get his opinion. He was recommended by Green Oval Garage in Leeds.
One I have heard lots of good things about on here is Bristol Transmissions, but they are a bit far for me. Another previously mentioned on here is BA Transmissions Keighley, but haven't heard as much about them as Bristol Transmissions.
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| 16th Sep 2015 8:30 am |
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Znatan
Member Since: 03 Apr 2015
Location: Israel
Posts: 47
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Hi, pls keep posting. This is great info and I hope we can get into definit root cause here with all the pros watching and help.. Thanks [/quote]
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| 21st Sep 2015 8:07 pm |
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Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20811
 
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martindg wrote:Last night I removed the sump guard and put 3 microphones around the bellhousing and 1 on the gearbox sump.
The loudest source of the noise I have located so far was from a microphone in the hole at the bottom of the bellhousing, I removed a rubber grommet to gain access to this hole.
I guess this suggests the most likely source is the torque converter, but maybe it could also be something at the front end of the gearbox?, however I couldn't hear the noise on the gearbox sump
Disco_Mikey wrote:Disco_Mikey wrote:Mine makes exactly the same noise.
I'll let you know in a few weeks if its gearbox related...
I was convinced it was turbo related, but now, I'm not so sure, as it only happens when the TC is locked...
My noise disappeared with a replacement gearbox...
Lost for Words wrote:Pretty sure I had the same noise too, and it's also gone with a new TC. 
 My D3 Build Thread
TDV8 Retrofit Build Thread
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| 21st Sep 2015 8:14 pm |
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Scwede
Member Since: 31 Jul 2014
Location: Jönköping, Sweden
Posts: 301
 
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So Mikey,
In your wisdom what do you think it could be in the TC that could create a metallic scraping noise? Out of curiosity?
Cheers
Stu
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| 21st Sep 2015 9:00 pm |
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Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20811
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I believe it is either a pressure loss within the torque convertor, or oil cavitating in the torque convertor /oil pump...
But autoboxes are witchcraft, and both theories may be complete  My D3 Build Thread
TDV8 Retrofit Build Thread
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| 21st Sep 2015 9:17 pm |
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Scwede
Member Since: 31 Jul 2014
Location: Jönköping, Sweden
Posts: 301
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Disco_Mikey wrote:I believe it is either a pressure loss within the torque convertor, or oil cavitating in the torque convertor /oil pump...
But autoboxes are witchcraft, and both theories may be complete
In the absence of any witches - I will accept that 
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| 21st Sep 2015 9:19 pm |
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martindg
Member Since: 24 Jun 2015
Location: Werrington, Staffordshire
Posts: 44
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I got in touch with Bristol Transmissions and sent them a recording of the noise, unfortunately they couldn't diagnose the problem without driving the car. They suggested noticing if there was any slip when accelerating. I tested it while towing my caravan to Yorkshire last week, can't say there was any noticable slip, maybe the revs settled back a couple of hundred rpm on the rev counter immediately after putting my foot down, but I guess that could be normal.
They quoted about 950 plus vat to replace the torque converter including fitting a metal sump and replaceable filter to the box, which is on my to do list anyway, with a fluid change, is that around what most people pay.
The question for me is should I spend that amount of cash on something that at the moment is just irritating me rather being a drivability issue. I do tend to keep my cars a long time and hope this one will last 7-8 years, so maybe it could be an investment.
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| 22nd Sep 2015 7:52 am |
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Znatan
Member Since: 03 Apr 2015
Location: Israel
Posts: 47
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TC shell it be  [/u]
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| 22nd Sep 2015 8:53 am |
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