Raw CCF editing is no simple thing and i would never dream of offering this kind of raw capability to anyone who had not already invested in our MSV-2 system and have the benefit of the help, experience and expertize it alone provides.
are you now saying that Genesis will only be available to MSV-2 owners, as earlier on in this thread you stated
BBS SPY wrote:
Owners of neither an MSV-2 or FCR will be able to buy just the lead and have full diagnostic capability, albeit only over the internet.
One has to love the English language as there must be something better. What was meant is that if you do not have an MSV-2, (that's me), you have to purchase not only a cable, but a few other electronic parts that already comes with the MSV-2 or FCR.
If for some reason, you want to get directly on the internet with your MSV-2, then you will need that cable to tie it to your internet connection. I suppose say your wife has the 3 somewhere distant and your FCR or MSV-2 is at home with you, then you could fix your 3 remotely, (clear codes or whatever), and wife would be home to happily make you supper, plus she would think all the money you spent was well worth it.
If you already have the MSV-2, you already have the ability to do everything yourself that I would be paying one of the multi license guys to do for me. The Genesis facility allows computer challenged types like me to pay someone who already knows how to fool with the CCF to do stuff the local dealer either cannot or will not or I don't have enough money to lure him into learning how to.
Probably a better name for of the Genesis system is "CCF Mods for Dummies", but that does not market too well. 2005 LR3 HSE 4.4L AJ-V8 petrol; Traxide Dual Battery; PIAA 2500K Yellow Ion H11 Fog Light bulbs; CounterAct LT-2 Capacitive Corrosion control; LLumar AIR80 Blue clear Infra Red blocking side window film; Liftgate manual release; Schrader Valve "air in" mod to OEM air suspension reservoir tank; Akebono ceramic pads; OEM solid vented discs; LR4 design hitch receiver; Wiggs D4 MOST bluetooth module; Clock on the Dash; 3 Flash signal light mod; Backup Camera; 2015/16 Nav Data update.
6th Feb 2012 2:59 am
DiscoStu
Member Since: 09 Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 11412
Re: Payback is even greater.
bbyer wrote:
geoff. wrote:
be nice to know what happens to us with multi vehicle in our investment going to be worthless
If I understand this properly, those who have made the multi vehicle investment now can now provide service for a fee to people such as myself half a world away, or even a few blocks away.
All I have to do is connect to you via the internet, pay you some money, and you do the modifications over the wire rather than by standing beside the vehicle.
The world becomes your market, not just the local neighbourhood. That is how the internet can work and I think in this case, does.
Am I understanding the possibilities correctly?
Great for the customer too, as you can buy the 'service' from the cheapest provider, wherever they are in the world Disco 5 HSE Lux
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peyiqaJrmMU
6th Feb 2012 6:40 am
ids
Member Since: 12 May 2009
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 384
Hi
So you are saying that you need a CAN BUS VCI 2 lead, a 15 to 9 way serial adaptor plus a serial port to plug it into as well as either someone with an MSV/FCR remotely to do the work?
I misunderstood from the outset. I thought you were saying with the above, a non hardware owning user would be able to use your server based MSV/FCR system for the appropriate fee ? It now seems this is not the case..... Damn shame if it is as I can't justify the cost of purchase of a device but would happily pay for minimal hardware and occasional licence/ use fee
Ids
6th Feb 2012 7:36 am
Bodsy Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
IDS, yes, you need the VCI2 cable and a 15=>9 adapter and a serial to USB adapter. Around £100 for that lot.
Then any of the Multivehicle MSV2 owners can do whatever updates you need Bodsys Brake Bible
Colin, can you offer a package of the required lead and adapter?
A Genesis subsection would be a good idea.
My XP laptop has a 9 pin serial port so all I think I will need is the CAN BUS VCI-2 lead as I assume that a 15 to 9 serial adapter is a standard computer item and I think I have one of those - will have to start looking. I will not need the serial to USB adapter, but it would be handy to have for the newer laptops - but again, that should be locally available hardware.
I did find the VCI -2 cable, LD020, for 93 Euro already listed in the "store" but it was buried in with the Faultmate MSV-2 products so was not certain it was the correct item. https://blackbox-solutions.com/shop/
In the accessories section, I also found a LD040 cable called Genesis adapter for LD020, but could not figure out if that was a "special" item or just a 15 to 9 serial adapter. The cost was only about 4 Euro so the question was did I need it as opposed to can I afford it? Also it is flexible cable design whereas I recall my adapter is kind of a long chunk that fits rigid to the laptop 9 pin port - not the best.2005 LR3 HSE 4.4L AJ-V8 petrol; Traxide Dual Battery; PIAA 2500K Yellow Ion H11 Fog Light bulbs; CounterAct LT-2 Capacitive Corrosion control; LLumar AIR80 Blue clear Infra Red blocking side window film; Liftgate manual release; Schrader Valve "air in" mod to OEM air suspension reservoir tank; Akebono ceramic pads; OEM solid vented discs; LR4 design hitch receiver; Wiggs D4 MOST bluetooth module; Clock on the Dash; 3 Flash signal light mod; Backup Camera; 2015/16 Nav Data update.
6th Feb 2012 4:44 pm
cold_n_wet
Member Since: 05 May 2009
Location: Bergen
Posts: 1509
Re: Payback is even greater.
DiscoStu wrote:
Great for the customer too, as you can buy the 'service' from the cheapest provider, wherever they are in the world
Yepp a 1000 chinese techs are waiting to take your call. IDTOOL PRO / Faultmate programing and BAS remaping services in Norway.
Diagnostic for most Land rover vehicles
Land Rover parts and accessories.
Stockist of RLD equipment.
www.praesto4x4.no
D4 gone, missed but replaced with a 110 Puma.
6th Feb 2012 4:46 pm
Bodsy Site Sponsor
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Bruce, yes you found the correct items.
just a 9=> 15 std converter as i understand it. Bodsys Brake Bible
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset See It Here
6th Feb 2012 4:52 pm
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
In the first few posts i made on this thread, i stated that it is my hope and intent to have Genesis benefit everyone equally, from those who own nothing through to those with MSV-2 MV's
Clearly Genesis is quite some advancement that has huge future potential, but at this stage the project is far from finished to any releasable standard and we really have to concentrate on that aspect and figure what will even be possible with it way before considering stuff like who will be able to do what with it.
I also fully explained in my very first post on this thread the lead re usage situation and have since detailed the exact pin to pin connectivity of our 9 to 15 Adaptor which as mentioned in the first post is only required if you have the MSV-2 Version of the VCI 2 lead but is not if you have the FCR version.
6th Feb 2012 6:41 pm
GrenobleLandy
Member Since: 04 Mar 2009
Location: Grenoble
Posts: 116
Just this evening I've reset my FBH which was locked out due to low fuel again ( ) - using the FCR I bought 2 years ago. Quick test cos it's -10 outside and it's working happily again - the single best accessory I have bought for this car . Looks like I already have the correct lead ( )so can't wait to sign up for more of the BBS magic .TDV6 HSE AUTO
Defender 90 CSW
6th Feb 2012 9:48 pm
marco 110
Member Since: 15 Nov 2009
Location: SALLES 33
Posts: 1014
yes "FCR" is already a good tool!
But we must understand that "GENESIS" is Reserve to MSV2 ?
Hope we can sign up for more of the BBS magic tool......... Marco.
-D4 sdv6 HSE 2012 , high beam assist , surround cam, tv , and a lot of nice stuff..
Member Since: 20 Sep 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1416
Hi Colin,
this looks really interesting (not to mention the wow factor ) Perhaps a few more scenarios could clear things up, so here's a couple just to confirm I/we got this right. Would appreciate if you could confirm and answer the odd question if possible:
Scenario 1: I have an FCR, nothing more to buy
I am away, SWMBO mentions casually "the car said something when I parked but didn't have time to notice" (FCR is at home but nowhere to be found). Eldest agrees to plug in cable, hook up to laptop which is on our wifi and fire up the VPN client. I log on from wherever, pay a one-time fee and diagnose over the net.
Scenario 2: I have only bought the cable
As above.
Scenario 3: I somehow have the cable (from either of the above options)
New rims and/or tires fitted at a tire place, vehicle needs tracking. Again I am away ( ) but SWMBO agrees to take the car in. Eldest plugs in as above, I go online and set the car to tight tolerance paying the appropriate fee. Car -finally- has a proper tracking job done
Scenario 4: I somehow have the cable. I somehow manage to source the hardware for retrofitting the LR hybrid TV. Happy I have done all the wiring correctly, I set up a virtual appointment with Ian, Adrian, Pete, whoever to enable this for me on the CCF. [I pay a fee to use Genesis AND the MSV2 MV owner for the work??? - ]
Scenario 5: I have an MSV2 SV, and need to purchase additional cable bits for about GBP 30 to use Genesis. Mate who lives down the road and not too technically minded complains about something wrong with the car which dealer won't find. I buy another cable only which I hook-up to his car and log on to Genesis [will the cable lock to his VIN at this stage??? ] I then buy a one-off second VIN diagnosis licence to run full diagnostics on his car and find the problem to be ride height sensor needing calibration. I then purchase a one-off fee to perform this task (calibrate the sensors) and job done! (do I get the cable back to use with another vehicle, perhaps paying a small fee to do so?)
I think these are a few that could happen quite frequently, and as examples may help clear out the use and complimentary nature of Genesis as I understand it. Keep us posted
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
@ GrenobleLandy & marco 110
Thanks for the praise.
It will not surprise you to learn that we have now supplied hundreds of FCR's a good proportion to D3 and 4 owners and have had not one real single complaint so far. A small handful have had to come back to be reprogrammed as a result of the power or USB being pulled at the worst possible moment during upgrading, which was usually not required to be done anyway.
discoBizz
I started this thread simply to announce and reveal the existence of the Genesis project and describe the hardware and method of the technology it uses for the benefit of anyone interested.
At the moment we are focused solely on the technical aspects of getting it working flawlessly and although it's had a lot of work and is looking good enough to be worthy of posting about, there are many aspects that are still in the testing stage, any one of which might possibly prove insurmountable and cause the project to ultimately be canned.
Working over the internet is simple if everything goes well, but there are a vast amount of "what if's" that all have to be handled properly, many of which will not even be imaginable until they actually happen.
It's bad enough doing the sort of advanced stuff we do with a direct connection and even that has caused a few hairy moments for some owners
So i hope you will appreciate that i really cannot and will not introduce a system that has any amount of risk involved and that is no small matter.
That's one of the reasons i am setting up some demo systems and demo accounts on Genesis for folkds to try this out which is almost ready now.
If all goes well and Genesis gets to a bullet proof and so marketable state, then i will start to think more deeply about how to tailor what it offers and how to best to market it and integrate it with our existing products and what degree of license crossover ability to implement.
Fortunately, it will provide almost limitless options to me in this respect and as i have constantly tried to explain, it is my wish, intent and hope to provide the benefits Genesis can possibly introduce in such a way as everyone gains something from it.
All your scenarios are pretty much along the lines of what i would hope and try to have Genesis provide, but at this stage i really cannot guarantee anything to anyone beyond my published and dependent, wish, intent and hope.
9th Feb 2012 6:50 pm
pom
Member Since: 10 Feb 2008
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 1790
I don't get your fascination with trying to run it off the 'internet'. Who cares how the software is controlled and as you will have found out you are making life difficult by using a web based client/server app. There is a reason the market ditched this method years ago. Its unreliable, a pain in the ass to support and wont work when the customer most needs it in the field.
Do like the rest of the software companies who are anal about licensing and use a hasp usb dongle, its proven and reliable tech and can be easily online updated.
It also means if your on the road with no wifi you don't have an expensive BBS brick in your glove box.
Pom
9th Feb 2012 7:19 pm
discoBizz
Member Since: 20 Sep 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1416
BBS SPY wrote:
All your scenarios are pretty much along the lines of what i would hope and try to have Genesis provide, but at this stage i really cannot guarantee anything to anyone beyond my published and dependent, wish, intent and hope.
Thanks Colin, understood and happy I got the gist of the concept. Hope all beta testing goes well (and of course offer myself and my D3 as guinea pigs ) and that once you cross th Ts and dot the Is you'll have a great (third) product for us to crave - and hopefully own
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
are you now saying that Genesis will only be available to MSV-2 owners, as earlier on in this thread you stated
) - using the FCR I bought 2 years ago. Quick test cos it's -10 outside and it's working happily again - the single best accessory I have bought for this car 
. Looks like I already have the correct lead ( 
)so can't wait to sign up for more of the BBS magic 
