Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13912
astonbuilder wrote:
Moo wrote:
I love my old bus. She’s 14 years old with 230k on the clock and is stupidly reliable. However, she will be my first and last LR because of the reliability and poor customer service.
Get those right and I’d have bought another
Your statements seem to have contradictions in them
Your car is 'stupidly reliable' but you won't have another due to 'the reliability'
Poor customer service is another thing I grant you but how much experience have you had with it given the "[it]is stupidly reliable" quote?
If you're quoting the reliability of others experiences then never buy a BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, VW, et al as you will read/hear similar on pretty much any forum if you want to look for it......
My car is stupidly reliable because I look after it extremely well mechanically. I have a good independent who really knows their stuff.
I would by another LR if they had one that met my needs like my old bus does. Sadly the D5 doesn't. As for reliability of LR products, electronic problems and the oil dilution issue is something that shouldn't happen and blaming driving style is pretty poor. As for customer service, my experience in the past and recently from different garages has frankly been shocking. So coming back to your point, if LR produced the car that met my needs like my D3, resolved reliability issues and sorted out customer service at their dealers, yes I would buy another, but until then my old bus is unlikely to be replaced with another LR product. Simple really.New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
3rd Jan 2019 1:05 pm
adam
Member Since: 20 Sep 2005
Location: Home and Happy
Posts: 6917
AndrewS wrote:
SN wrote:
Back in the day (gawd.. over 10 years ago) this wasn't a problem as everyone had a new one under warranty
Its only natural that the natives will get restless when their 'cheap to buy but expensive to maintain' second hand motors start to break down...
Is this issue any worse than other marques?
Probably cheaper to keep the vehicles in warranty
After 14 years of ownership and 13 years on this site, a catastrophic failure was one of the reasons that made me move on a couple of weeks ago.
Any warranty cover on a D4 at nearly 9 years old with 116k on the clock would either be very expensive or rubbish or probably both.
So, traded in whilst it still had decent value as a vehicle rather than a collection of parts.
I guess, like my D4, the greater % of cars on this site are immaculately maintained, but suspect a number of failures are caused by poor servicing.
I totally sympathise with anybody who has the nightmare of the snapped crank and I hope the petition does something, but I suspect outside of the 3 year warranty you are in a goodwill situation or a serious scrap with a 3rd party warranty firm on the higher mileage models.
3rd Jan 2019 1:21 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
DG wrote:
All this hysteria over a few cranks and Sharron Davies
Being multiple £K out of pocket for a design issue plus loosing use of your vehicle at a random moment is never funny Rich. You and I have never experienced such a failure (yet) but gloating about it is rude in the extreme.
Unfortunately JLR have driven a similar wedge between markets with its divisive 'help or punish' strategy. If it really was just a few cranks then I suspect JLR would have been more forthcoming with the support. As we stand they are just trying to get away with the issue in as many markets and legal systems as they can.
JLR deserve the repetitional damage - they chose this path at the expense of their customers.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
I refer the honorable gentleman to the answer I gave some moment ago
DG wrote:
Moo wrote:
DG wrote:
All this hysteria over a few cranks and Sharron Davies
Serious enough for some countries to initiate a recall and insist on rectification
It was a comical spin on the Sharron thing tbh
3rd Jan 2019 5:23 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72790
Robbie wrote:
Being multiple £K out of pocket for a design issue plus loosing use of your vehicle at a random moment is never funny Rich. You and I have never experienced such a failure (yet)
And may neither of you suffer that fate. It’s not fun when the big spinny thing in the front decides it’s going to threw its toys out of the pram.
3rd Jan 2019 6:19 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Of course, I'm not pointing and laughing at the individuals who have suffered this or any other significant failure...and I have often stated that LR should be more forthcoming to customers when the failures are clearly demonstrated to be lying at their door.
What I find comical, aside from Sharron, is the regular hysteria whipped up and the misguided projects on how best to punish the manufacturer ...let's just look at the current petition ...badly worded ...using a US based petitioner site...signed by a proportion of people still driving 14 year+ old D3's ...target is 3000 when ten's of thousands of the models are in circulation in the UK alone. I would be far more supportive of those who have actually suffered the failure clubbing together with professional advice and taking on JLR over the issue....but it is seemingly fruitless.
What remains a fact is despite the recalls in China and Korea to 'check' c.70k vehicles, the numbers game of the TDV6\SDV6 failures is not demonstrated to be any different than the industry average ...even if it were 5% above the industry average it would be a comparatively small amount of engines than those ever sold.
I hope otherwise, but find it doubtful that LR would do a recall on crank failures in the UK .... they will say that they have acknowledged the issue with the TSB and look at every failure on a case by case basis..... whether the outcome of that is satisfactory to each customer clearly varies significantly and we are not party to that judgement.
Things will fail, some are patterned, some are not ...we all mitigate the risks to varying levels in the way we see fit and accept. Don't beat me up for my choice
3rd Jan 2019 7:10 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13108
It's one thing to not issue a recall, quite another to charge £15k-18k for a new engine. If they were reasonable and provided engines at cost, then perhaps there would be less concern amongst owners.
And, no, I don't believe that a new 3.0 engine costs LR remotely anywhere near the figure they charge customers.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
3rd Jan 2019 9:51 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6261
Slightly off topic but what the dealer told me when the Velar was in getting its headlights fixed, the cost to me would’ve been £3k inc VAT excluding fitting per light, cost to dealer £1700 per light.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
3rd Jan 2019 10:21 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72790
And prob cost LR less than half that.
3rd Jan 2019 10:26 pm
adam
Member Since: 20 Sep 2005
Location: Home and Happy
Posts: 6917
J77 wrote:
Slightly off topic but what the dealer told me when the Velar was in getting its headlights fixed, the cost to me would’ve been £3k inc VAT excluding fitting per light, cost to dealer £1700 per light.
A 30% Gross Margin is not excessive - who pays for the expensive facilities and free tea and biscuits?
3rd Jan 2019 10:30 pm
kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6575
DSL wrote:
And prob cost LR less than half that.
Yes and no.
Yes, if we only look at the manufacturing cost for that particular light.
No (probably), if we look at the fully loaded cost. Besides the actual manufacturing cost there are other places the money (slices of it) needs to go to, too. JLR invests up front, that needs to eventually be made back (and then some). Keeping the lights on, marketing, storage, facilities, etc.
3rd Jan 2019 10:48 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6261
adam wrote:
J77 wrote:
Slightly off topic but what the dealer told me when the Velar was in getting its headlights fixed, the cost to me would’ve been £3k inc VAT excluding fitting per light, cost to dealer £1700 per light.
A 30% Gross Margin is not excessive - who pays for the expensive facilities and free tea and biscuits?
What tea and biscuits? What expensive facilities? My dealer ain’t one of the new fancy JLR showrooms in fact they’re no longer a new car franchise.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
3rd Jan 2019 11:43 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13912
Sounds like that X3 is getting closer.New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
3rd Jan 2019 11:43 pm
mse
Member Since: 27 Jun 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2702
Many valid points listed here.
I know for a fact that a supportive and engaged dealer, who your contract is with etc, will and can yield the result you want, it’s easy for the, to blame JLR, who often aren’t engaged like they say and use that to pass the buck. I would say it’s a fool that accepts that. I’ve seen this first hand with three dealers, when I had a problem I navigated through that and all was fine.
Equally, emotion out, is the problem actually that bad...% wise probably not etc etc. I also know all manufacturers have issues, but not all are British and support British people...oh and it is a British brand with serious ties here....get behind it not for brexit or that rubbish, because it’s what we should do to support our workers etc.
What I know 3 land rovers on the drive, at least a new one each year, sometime 2 or 3 none of my D4s or rrs over 7 years had any issue. Our evoque had an engine none start issue, Land Rover assist taxied us around, took the car, dropped off a fully loaded disco sport, fixed the car and returned it. A pain, yes, but in the grand scheme of things, no biggie and sorted.
What we are talking about is old products, that are expensive, that need looking after, that’s the joys of motoring. If anyone thinks this isn’t worse with other 2nd hand other brands then that’s naive and I know the consequences can be far worse...look at the pickups that chassis snapped!
It also bugs me when people compare a new Volvo or BM t with an old d4...d5 easily competes and is better in many ways
Equally, if a part breaks, then yes there will be mark ups...that’s how businesses work
In short, support our guys and girls with a world class brand...don’t cry when they aren’t here, unemployment’s high and we don’t have it.Mike
4th Jan 2019 12:16 am
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6261
My problem is I seem to be navigating my way round quite a few problems, in the first few months I can handle but it’s soon to be a year old and I’m still navigating my way around problems that JLR just can’t seem to get to grips with. Which is a shame as I do love the Velar.
It’s something I’ve really never had to deal with before, could be I’ve just got one of those cars, I could perhaps buy another tomorrow and everything will be perfect. I’ve seen a different side to LR these last few months, one that’s perhaps always been there that I haven’t had to experience but it’s a side that goes against their so called premium image.
One thing I will say is there’s no squeaks, creaks or rattles in this car, so I suppose baby steps.
I personally would like to see LR hold their hands up and say yes we haven’t lived up to customers expectations of a premium brand, in terms of quality, service and support. Just some simple gesture to customers that show they are listening and willing to learn from issues raised by customers.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
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reliability
