Farmer Chalk
Member Since: 07 Mar 2013
Location: Independent Republic of Kentishshire.
Posts: 4156
  
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Goodness this is hard work....
No one is suggesting driving with fog lights on in good weather or slight rain is good! But if the weather has been torrential like it has over the last couple of days then some of us suggest it’s a good idea if the visibility is poor and the traffic hasn’t backed up...
If traffic is heavy then the use of them is downright annoying and unecessary because we can see the vehicle in front.....hopefully we can agree with that...
For the rest of us a number of heavy motorway users will do a number of things to try and make it easier for others in inclement weather...
I suppose your going to moan about people using hazard warning lights on the move...(though you”ll notice that this has recently crept into the Highway Code as good practice)
Please please if it’s foggy (whatever you would consider fog ... not mist) please don’t consider driving at 15 mph on the motorway!!
The End.... I’m bored...
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 21st Feb 2020 7:25 pm |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13126
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I use hazards when coming up behind slow/stopped traffic on the motorway. Anything that lets the drivers behind realise there's a blockage is good, in my opinion, as I don't want to be rear-ended by someone who hasn't seen the closing speeds in time.
A number of manufacturers implement automatic hazards on heavy braking now, I think. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 21st Feb 2020 7:42 pm |
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Farmer Chalk
Member Since: 07 Mar 2013
Location: Independent Republic of Kentishshire.
Posts: 4156
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Exactamundo!  
But some would frown on this I’m sure....
This was a great example of good practice which changed the Highway Code to allow it!
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| 21st Feb 2020 8:06 pm |
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Paul J.
Member Since: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Leafy Cheshire
Posts: 7284
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LT wrote:
Does your BEV have additional rain lights fitted?
No, but it does have the same heated windscreen as your FFRR, which I presume you have removed from yours because the element wires refract and scatter the light from rear lights......  An ex-Disco3 / FFRR owner ......
..... now on the JLR electric highway.
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| 21st Feb 2020 8:15 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23388
 
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I’ve never found that to be the case with any heated windscreen. Have you?
Dazzle from high intensity rear fog lights however is a proven fact and mention of it is included in the wording of the Highway Code. Best you have a word with Boris and get it changed. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
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| 21st Feb 2020 10:04 pm |
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Paul J.
Member Since: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Leafy Cheshire
Posts: 7284
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Now I’ve mentioned it, you’ll notice it ......  An ex-Disco3 / FFRR owner ......
..... now on the JLR electric highway.
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| 21st Feb 2020 10:54 pm |
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mse
Member Since: 27 Jun 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2702
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New defender Andre some other cars soon across Land Rover range detect a driver not slowing and flash the rear lights to get their attention and try to avoid a rear collision Mike
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| 21st Feb 2020 11:47 pm |
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mse
Member Since: 27 Jun 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2702
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They should be called high intensity rear lights. But all everything, including the door is low visibility and defines that.
I agree here, heavy rain that generates spray and creates low visibility is the same as fog, light rain etc is different
Wiltshire police website isn’t the law but is actually saying what we are and even if it wasn’t the police and Wiltshire is not the law nor writes it
Incidentally I’ve used the high intensity rear lights once on my disco and in fog lol...I’ve never been dazzled by others in bad weather. Mike
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| 21st Feb 2020 11:56 pm |
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leeds
Member Since: 30 Aug 2010
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 4312
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Am I missing something in this discussion? Rather than focusing in on the exact definition of what poor visibility is or is not and exactly who writes the law etc surely there is a more major consideration?
That is consideration and respect for other road users (note users not drivers) the appalling lack of road craft and lack of ability to read the road and the road conditions.
A lot of drivers have no idea what a 'safety zone' is!
Often seen 3 or 4 cars in the outer motorway lane in what I consider my safety zone at 70mph. Now most people consider reaction time as about 1/10 of a second whereas brake reaction time is between 0.7 to 3 seconds. Which means at the faster brake reaction time the car would have travelled about 80 feet whereas at the slower end about 350 feet. Those are distance travelled prior to brakes being applied.
Just watch the brake lights come on in sequence on a clear dry day repeatedly which shows poor ability to read road/conditions
Other examples of lack of road craft/ability to read the road abound.
There are some interesting comments and photos here . 80%+ of drivers consider their driving skills above average!
Looking at some of those photographs with depth of water obvious, with speed of water obvious, with lack of clarity in water obvious I would be extremely reluctant to enter the water. With our 300 TDi Defender I might enter some of those water conditions with door open.
One of the interesting comments was
"In general, we are poor at assessing risk when it comes to driving."
Brendan
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| 22nd Feb 2020 11:53 am |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13126
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I was chatting, recently, with a chap who had been on a speed awareness course. He said part of it included general road safety, signs etc. He was scared to find how many of the people on the course struggled to identify road sign meanings. He said he realised how bad some of his fellow road users are.
I wouldn't be averse to a programme of license renewal / retesting. A retest every 5 or 10 years would be a good way of getting people to reacquaint themselves with the basics. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 22nd Feb 2020 1:25 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23388
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The Dundonian wrote:Point of order, the Highway Code doesn’t make it an offence.
The RVLRs don’t make it an offence. In fact no Regulation does, but it requires an Act to do this.
So for instance the RV(C&U) Regs may detail an offence, but it’s the RTA 1988 as amended, Section 41 (1)(a) etc that makes it an offence to contravene that specific Regulation.
So if you were charged with something, it would be libelled as RVLR and RTA etc.
Basic law my man.
That doesn't mean you can't be issued with a FPN by the Police if you break one of the Highway Code rules, usually identified by containing the words 'must' or 'must not'.
Basic facts my man.
Happily this is the case for misuse of fog lights. 👍 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
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| 22nd Feb 2020 2:53 pm |
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Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
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Nice idea, but to have a test means you’d have to have a percentage fail.
The repercussions to the individual people and car market would be dire, not to mention the economy, insurance premiums, retesting rigmarole. Then what do you do with foreign nationals wanting to drive here?
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| 22nd Feb 2020 2:54 pm |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13126
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A test can be done in such a way that you have your test and, should you fail it, you're in to a course of remedial instruction whilst being allowed to drive. Fail the retest after the instruction and you're walking. Just because there's a test doesn't mean people have to fail - it's up to them to ensure they can pass. Everyone ought to be able to pass it, especially if they've been driving for a good period of time. I'm not even sure it needs to be an in-car test. Just refreshing and testing the risks etc. on the on-screen systems now used for the current theory test would probably help a good deal.
Foreign nationals driving here for a short period e.g. a holiday, aren't much of an issue. Although, after the incidents around RAF Croughton, one could argue that people staying here for a longer period ought to be required to pass a UK driving test. I'm not sure that approach to foreigners is any different to what happens in many countries.
Quite what one does with the likes of the blonde I saw yesterday on the M4 in wet weather conditions (fog lights not required!) is beyond me. Nice new Porsche, Lane 3, c.80mph, both hands and eyes on the phone texting, phone held down at the bottom of the wheel so at least the wheel was being "held" I suppose. But really, what excuse is there for that sort of behaviour? Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 25th Feb 2020 6:42 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23388
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Plenty of fog lights, front and rear, blazing during a short but heavy downpour on the M5 this afternoon. Visibility of rear lights was easily 200m+.
Yet some thought it best to switch on their fogs, despite the fact that they were driving at 50- 60mph and the dazzle due to the spray could obscure their less bright brake lights. 
Perhaps they were purposefully winding up the D5 driver. Yes, I've still got it!  2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
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| 25th Feb 2020 7:02 pm |
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Hardware
Member Since: 28 Jun 2016
Location: Hiding under the M60
Posts: 12721
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does this thread need a new title ? "LT sees red" springs to mind. 
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| 25th Feb 2020 7:25 pm |
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