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My point is that, whilst the monthly pay is, at least in the lower and middle ranks, nothing exceptional, what lifts it is the benefits. Benefits that most people employed in the private sector can only dream of. Holidays, sick pay, maternity pay, pension provision ...

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John C wrote:

...for what it's worth. The best I could get to in terms of trying to pin down the organisational problem of the NHS is that the far bigger problem is the very complex societal problems the NHS is trying to deal with. From ignorant, unhealthy people clogging up A&E to wards full of lifestyle problems... But that in itself if just oversimplifying things!

Mogwyth wrote:

No subsidised canteens here in North Wales, we pay the same as Joe Public and have to fight them for a table!!

Brian_DL13 wrote:

APart from large employers (BP as a random example) the typical private sector setup is
- contribution-based pension (most final salary schemes, as the NHS has, either never existed or were abolished years ago as unaffordable)
- sick pay and maternity pay, the legal requirement is to pay at a fixed level (£113 pw? without checking), not what you currently earn. Some bigger employers will go 6 weeks full 6 weeks half before going down to the statutary minimum
- annual leave the statutory minimum is 20 days + BH. Some (by no means all) private sector employers will increase that for time in employment but I'm not aware of any that get up to NHS levels

And you typicaly find lots of incidental employment conditions (eg no subsidised canteens) that are worse than the NHS.

I've just dug out the ToE for my son, who is married to a nurse and in a skilled job with a company that has around 50 employees, bringing home roughly the same pay. He considers them to be a good employer. Some highlights:

8.1 The Employee is entitled to the equivalent of 5.6 weeks annual leave inclusive of public holidays, that is 20 days holiday plus 8 public holidays; with incremental increase of 1 day per year up to a maximum of 25 days holiday.

10.1 The Employer does not pay contractual sick pay.

11.1 The Employer does provide an occupational pension scheme.

17.1 The Employer reserves the right put the Employee on lay off or short-time working depending on the needs of the Employer’s business.
17.2 Where the Employee is placed on lay off, this will be paid at the statutory rate in force from time to time.

Where the Employer pays the costs of training and the Employee terminates his employment for whatever reason or is dismissed by the Employer as a result of disciplinary action then the Employee will be required to refund the costs of any training as follows:
Termination of employment within 12 months of completing training 100% of cost

... and so on



Compare and contrast

Oh, and I just looked up the rate of SSP. This is from the government website:

You can get £88.45 per week Statutory Sick Pay (SSP) if you’re too ill to work. It’s paid by your employer for up to 28 weeks.


That equates to £4599 per annum.

Mogwyth wrote:

No subsidised canteens here in North Wales, we pay the same as Joe Public and have to fight them for a table!!

Same in my part of West Yorkshire, and staff have to pay for car parking - in a field, with a couple of inches of gravel, on a slope - mind you, everywhere's on a slope in this city - it was good for the wool fettlers.

DigitalJunior wrote:

As part of my job I manage A&E flow and am one of the senior managers that gets such a good deal (apparently) and therefore very knowledgable on this subject but I'm not going to comment due to the tone taken by some members towards NHS staff. Quite disappointing tbh.

And million upon million of us, tho' we do moan from time to time, are WITH you all the way.
Without you and your teams, the medics just wouldn't be able to do the superb jobs they do as they rush from one 'case' to the next, always knowing that the notes will be there, the patient is the patient expected, etc, etc

AAA

DigitalJunior wrote:

As part of my job I manage A&E flow and am one of the senior managers that gets such a good deal (apparently) and therefore very knowledgable on this subject but I'm not going to comment due to the tone taken by some members towards NHS staff. Quite disappointing tbh.

Yes but it's even more disappointing when a relative is neglected by NHS staff who are paid to care. My gran was dying (they admitted they knew) yet they thought it was a good idea to send her to another hospital to learn how to make herself a f king cup of tea and toast, FFS, a dying woman, she got rushed back the same night and she slowly slipped away over the next 5 days. Another woman in my grans ward in her 80s, blind, her dinner just left lying on her table well out of reach, not one nurse bothered to help her, my mum fed her, the nurses too busy standing around planning their Friday night.

It was disgusting to see a woman who I was very close to being treated like a second class citizen. She never stole time of anyone and in her time of need the NHS failed her. A lot more errors happened but I won't go into.

There are a lot of good ones but it's difficult when a relative has received poor standards of care to look past the bad ones.

Quote:

Yes but it's even more disappointing when a relative is neglected by NHS staff who are paid to care.