Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6272
It's safe to say it's one piece, you never know a split tailgate maybe an option.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
4th Sep 2016 10:39 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
Think of the manufacturing requirement vs the financial return of 100 whiners wanting a split tail 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
4th Sep 2016 10:43 am
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6272
Yeh I can't see it happening.
I've seen it with the Fl2 owners at the DS launch, and some that wrote it off now have one. I'm sure we will go through it again from D5 to 6 23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
4th Sep 2016 10:50 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
DG wrote:
Think of the manufacturing requirement vs the financial return of 100 whiners wanting a split tail
Definition of "whiner": Someone who disagrees with the official DG / Land Rover party line! 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
Last edited by Red Merle on 4th Sep 2016 10:55 am. Edited 1 time in total
Which proper stuff have they messed with? The Evoque was new, the FFRR hasn't really been messed with, the RRS is simply made into what it should always have been. The FL2 is the only one to be messed with, and it starts as a vehicle of medium practicality due to its size. The Defender is gone, but let's face it, that's not your ordinary situation.
Who says a proper practical vehicle doesn't make money? As a car manufacturer, LR's job is to make the Disco extremely versatile so it is equally suitable as a tractor Chelsea or otherwise. It's also in their interest to have a range of cars to suit different uses and people, and to offer people change whilst staying in the brand.
What is so off-putting about the D4 as a Chelsea tractor? Not all that much TBH - which is why they are already hugely popular as such and since the D3 have already been popular as a premium vehicle. The D3 was the Disco that really entered the RR circle and the D4 took it further in; LR have, more or less, already achieved what they are after and don't seem to realise it...
As for their bank balance, that's what makes the situation all the more likely. As I said before, sucess is often the greatest failure - "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall." Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off )
Disco 3 06 reg B7S Manual Rimini Red
Disco 2 TD5 Y reg ES Manual Blue - Chipped
Several Discovery 300 TDis
Think of the manufacturing requirement vs the financial return of 100 whiners wanting a split tail
Definition of "whiner": Someone who disagrees with the official DG / Land Rover party line!
I had no idea a hinge was so expensive...
Come on, the manufacturing cost of a split vs fixed tailgate would be utter peanuts in the scheme of things.Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off )
Disco 3 06 reg B7S Manual Rimini Red
Disco 2 TD5 Y reg ES Manual Blue - Chipped
Several Discovery 300 TDis
4th Sep 2016 10:58 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
Red Merle wrote:
DG wrote:
Think of the manufacturing requirement vs the financial return of 100 whiners wanting a split tail
Definition of "whiner": Someone who disagrees with the official DG / Land Rover party line!
Not at all ...I may like a split tailgate ....but obviously it ain't happening ....so I move my mind on to the reality of the situation instead of moaning about it 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
4th Sep 2016 10:59 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
Lost for Words wrote:
I had no idea a hinge was so expensive...
Come on, the manufacturing cost of a split vs fixed tailgate would be utter peanuts in the scheme of things.
Of course but J77 was talking about it being an option which in that context ...designing it and manufacturing it for little return would be a nonsense.
They want a full piece as they want to offer automated opening \ closing ...because no doubt that is what customer feedback \ focus groups are telling them is an attraction.21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
Yes, but I still don't think it would be a loss-maker - especially not in the wider picture.
(And the L405 has a powered split tailgate.)
DG wrote:
Not at all ...I may like a split tailgate ....but obviously it ain't happening ....so I move my mind on to the reality of the situation instead of moaning about it
If we all applied that view to everything, nobody anywhere would ever be able to do anything for others. If we don't voice our frustration at that which we don't like, and instead accept everything without comment, we're never going to get what we want. Nobody is expecting the D5 to change, but it might influence the Defender replacement or Disco 6 or something from another manufacturer that we can turn to.
I don't see you keeping your mouth shut about the EU referendum. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off )
Disco 3 06 reg B7S Manual Rimini Red
Disco 2 TD5 Y reg ES Manual Blue - Chipped
Several Discovery 300 TDis
4th Sep 2016 11:13 am
comedyharvey
Member Since: 03 Jul 2010
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 1727
DG wrote:
Not at all ...I may like a split tailgate ....but obviously it ain't happening ....so I move my mind on to the reality of the situation instead of moaning about it
Pity you're not so phlegmatic about Brexit
Sorry DG, couldn't resist.Arthur.
Comedy was a horse, Harvey a dog, both sadly gone. Thought I was choosing a password!
Currently;
Discovery 3 HSE 2009
101" Fwd. Control 1976
Nuffield 10/90 Tractor (10/60 with 6 cylinder conversion) 1964
Previously;
Series III Lightweight. 1976.
4th Sep 2016 11:19 am
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6272
11 pages for a tailgate, wait till the prices are announced
I think we are all in agreement that the Split tailgate is a useful feature, to some more than others, for me it's no great loss, I do use it for sitting on when out and about with the dog, but it ain't a deal breaker. I still do believe it should be an option for those that want it, as part of some outdoor pack or whatever daft name LR would give it.
One thing I don't want to loose is the flat floor when the seats are down.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
4th Sep 2016 11:27 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
The bit about seats folding flat is a thought.
I don't think that they do in the DS, the RRS or the Evoque, I know they don't in the FFRR. They used to in the original RRS, obviously they do in our D4's and I believe they did in the previous FFRR L322. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I suspect, in order to get the boot floor low enough to give half decent clearance under a pointlessly fashionable tapering roof, this is probably an inevitable consequence. Most car reviews ignorantly criticise estate cars where you need to lift the seat squab to lower the best rest anyway and the need to drop a backrest remotely from the tailgate seems to be a "must have", so I'd assume that a flat floor won't be technically possible.
I don't imagine that the need for a flat floor in a loading bay is something that most of their new target customers would understand, let alone demand, anyway.2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
Last edited by Red Merle on 4th Sep 2016 1:03 pm. Edited 2 times in total
4th Sep 2016 12:39 pm
fat bloke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2006
Location: OXFORD
Posts: 1258
Might do a small mid model upgrade after 18 mths back to split tailgate stating didn't work and the complaints that this electric tailgate fails cannot open it,sensor is covered in mud or full of water etc list go's on.Why worry if like me don't like don't buy either move on to Defender or change Brand either way the new people? buying these cars ain't going to take it where some of us would.Just looked on my dealers facebook pages and the odd weird people buying these cars and you know when it's winter how are they going to drive it in harsh conditions?.
Which proper stuff have they messed with? The Evoque was new, the FFRR hasn't really been messed with, the RRS is simply made into what it should always have been. The FL2 is the only one to be messed with, and it starts as a vehicle of medium practicality due to its size. The Defender is gone, but let's face it, that's not your ordinary situation.
Who says a proper practical vehicle doesn't make money? As a car manufacturer, LR's job is to make the Disco extremely versatile so it is equally suitable as a tractor Chelsea or otherwise. It's also in their interest to have a range of cars to suit different uses and people, and to offer people change whilst staying in the brand.
What is so off-putting about the D4 as a Chelsea tractor? Not all that much TBH - which is why they are already hugely popular as such and since the D3 have already been popular as a premium vehicle. The D3 was the Disco that really entered the RR circle and the D4 took it further in; LR have, more or less, already achieved what they are after and don't seem to realise it...
As for their bank balance, that's what makes the situation all the more likely. As I said before, sucess is often the greatest failure - "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."
The LR range wasn't that differentiated it was but is moving to definately isn't.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
4th Sep 2016 1:17 pm
crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011
One thing that used to make owning a Land Rover something special was all to do with passion. Until I drove one, I didn’t realise just how highly the British people respected the brand. Its was almost as if they could do no wrong. Even when poor design and reliability became an issue, people still loved the brand simply because of it’s history and what it represented.
So where did this iconic status come from? It would be easy to say innovation… but really the original Land Rover was a copy, albeit a good one. Maybe the fact that the shape continued for so long, or was it because it was the vehicle of choice for worldwide explorers? It’s difficult to remember how startlingly different the Range Rover looked when it was launched. That was certainly innovative and started a whole new market sector, but you couldn’t say the love of the LR brand came from just the Range Rover, certainly not in London!
I think it’s all about honesty, not just about the company but also honesty of design. The Brits respect the “does exactly what it says on the tin” approach to design. Land Rovers have a reputation for being the best at whatever they do. The best off-road, the most luxurious, the most capable or utilitarian. We all know about their reputation for reliability, so they’re not the best at everything, but people will put up with that because the honesty of design is more important to many buyers.
I’ve heard people who drove in the Camel trophy say the Defender is the best vehicle in the world, I’ve met CEO’s of large companies say the Range Rover is the best vehicle in the world and there are many people on here who think that the Discovery is the most capable vehicle they could ever think of owning.
It’s a passion… a passion for great design and a respect for total capability.
So what about the future? We don’t have a Defender any more, or the utilitarian Discovery. The Full Fat Range Rover continues to be one of the most luxurious vehicle around, but can that alone carry the passion forward?
What we have left is the Range Rover Sport, Discovery 5, Discovery Sport and Evoque. All pretty much the same vehicle scaled up or down depending on your point of view. I’m sure LR will sell loads… in much the same way as Samsung sell a lot of telly’s and Zanussi sell loads of fridges, and if you measure success by sales alone, that’s fine. LR will continue to prosper (at least for a while) or until everyone gets totally bored.
So where’s the passion to take this brand forward?
To be honest, this whole WatergateBendgate Tailgate scandal is getting boring. The only response to anyone who doesn’t like what LR are currently doing is to accuse them of being whining old codgers who won’t update. For a while, owning what many people on here would argue was one of the best vehicles on the road, has been great fun... but it's clearly time to move on.
2005 D3 HSE 2011 D4 Landmark 2016 D4 HSE Lux
2017 Ford Tourneo VR46
Club Waitomo
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Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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