Member Since: 18 Jan 2021
Location: Morpeth
Posts: 102
Whilst everything is working normally, I interrogated live values for the NAVIGATION ECU. There was a bit of flickering of some of the values which I've captured on a video but I'm not sure how to post it.
I also get flickering of the ABS inlet/outlet valve status (inactive to active then back to inactive) when stationary with the engine running. Not sure if this is related to electrical gremlins in the system.
19th Feb 2021 1:46 pm
TyphoonDisco
Member Since: 18 Jan 2021
Location: Morpeth
Posts: 102
Another point of note, when I search for "faults by ECU" I get the complete list of ECUs but it appears a lot of them are "NOT FITTED" when I would expect them to be fitted.
ACTIVE ROLL CONTROL (Not sure if this should be fitted or not)
CD PLAYER (I definitely have a 6-CD changer)
CRUISE CONTROL (I definitely have cruise control)
DRIVER SEAT CLIMATE
HEADLIGHT
IMMOBILIZER
OCCUPANCY SENSOR
Are all of these just because the said item doesn't actually have an ECU?
19th Feb 2021 1:55 pm
aechambira
Member Since: 11 Jan 2016
Location: Nairobi
Posts: 117
What lights are showing on dash?
19th Feb 2021 3:28 pm
TyphoonDisco
Member Since: 18 Jan 2021
Location: Morpeth
Posts: 102
When the fault occurs it trips off a lot of the major systems which leaves me with the following lights:
Air Suspension (Yellow vehicle with roll arrows on top)
Yellow A with an arrow surround
Airbag
ABS
Red Exclamation Mark with brackets
Yellow engine management light
Park Brake (red R with brackets)
The lights on the dash will clear once I recycle the ignition 3 times.
I don't think there is an actual component failure, I think it is an electrical issue which is tripping off the items above that all sit on the High Speed CAN BUS.
I just can't narrow down what on earth the issue is!
19th Feb 2021 3:38 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14177
TyphoonDisco wrote:
Stuart,
Thank you as always for taking the time to reply! I really appreciate it.
The speed sensors seem fine, before the fault occurs they all provide what looks to be almost identical data which only differs slightly due to what I think is the refresh rate. Of course, after the failure they all indicate N/A as the systems all let go.
I will check the ohms on the HSCAN and MSCAN and get back to you!
I've been in touch with Patrick, he is most helpful and I'm always impressed with just how quick he replies! I will be purchasing a TCM ECU flash from him once the new one arrives (ordered yesterday!)
I've checked the earths now and they seem fine visually and there's no movement. How can I test their effectiveness from the battery neutral? Excuse my lack of electrical knowledge.
Thanks for steers on the equipment. I picked up an OEM TCM from Devon 4x4 for £125.
I do have the ABS light on after the fault, along with loads of others for the transmission, suspension, park brake etc all being tripped off line.
What is really strange is when I interrogate the various sources of "TOTAL DISTANCE" using the GAP IID, they show slightly different mileages which I think has arisen due to the failure of the speedo when this fault happens because the odometer stops counting up. Also, something v strange is happening in the reported "TOTAL MILEAGE" on the U2005-31 (2F.) code because the mileage is now up in the 8 million region!!!
Hi
Ur so welcome and always a pleasure to help where possible
Apologises if I’ve asked before , have u checked ur ECM behind the TCM please seeing the ABS connects to the ECM, just in case there’s a bad pin or even a dodgy wire at the ECM
Know it’s clutching at straws so to speak but just a thought
Thanks for the results , indeed look ok as need around 60 ohms , plus 1 what AJA 4x4 said ref the earth , just using ur multimeter onto ohms which allows u to check
Same if u wished to go from one end of a loom to the other to check wire continuity , by using the same Method
That’s a great saving on the TCM
Have u also checked ur steering wheel angle sensor plse, by setting ur wheels dead straight and seeing it should be at 0 degrees , seeing thats part of the ABS as well
Plse let us know how u get on , have also been searching through my links to see if there was anything else that may have been useful but alas nothing as of yet
Thks again for the update
Gary
20th Feb 2021 8:45 am
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14177
Just found this , it’s the pin layout of the ABS connector that connects to the ABS unit under the bonnet , don’t know if you’ve seen it before but at least using a multimeter can check out some of the pins, ie pin 28 ign supply , etc , along with the grounds
Hope that helps as well
Gary
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
20th Feb 2021 9:01 am
TyphoonDisco
Member Since: 18 Jan 2021
Location: Morpeth
Posts: 102
Hi Gary (Apologies for calling you Stuart in the previous post!)
I haven't checked the ECM yet, is it easy enough to get to? When you say it's behind the TCM, is it the thing which has the large white braced connectors going in from above?
I'm afraid I don't have the know-how to test the loom from end to end! I think to do this I would need to take it to a professional.
I work between Northumberland and Lincolnshire so any advice on a decent point of contact between the 2 would be great!
Reference the steering angle, the steering wheel actually does sit off centre slightly to the right (approx 5-6 degrees). I know this because I've tried calibrating the steering angle at 0 with the wheels straight and steering wheel cocked right and also tried calibrating it at 0 with the steering wheel centred but the wheels slightly left. Neither has solved the issue. I know I need to get the whole thing aligned so will get this sorted too.
Thank you also for the diagram of the ABS connector, most helpful. I will get the multimeter out to check the voltages across as many of those as possible. I'm not entirely sure what readings I should be getting though.
20th Feb 2021 11:23 am
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14177
Hi
Please don’t worry , no need to apologies mate
May i ask ur name plse if that’s ok , thks
Indeed if the module behind the TCM, same process of removing ur battery leads and battery to gain access to it , just thought then at least it can be eliminated to ensure the pins etc are all sound and no water ingress
Ref testing end to end, when u set ur meter to ohms ur testing for continuity of that wire, so meter on ohms, one multimeter test lead on one end of the wire and the other multimeter test lead to the other end of the loom wire, u should hear a beep from u meter, that then tells u there’s no break in the loom wire
Technically ohms means ur checking the resistance or continuity of a wire, in this test where just simply interested checking the wire isn’t broken from connector to connector
When u do this need to make sure that both battery leads are disconnected
So going from one wire within a connector and then going to another connector ur ensuring that the wire isn’t broken midstream, therefore ensuring that a signal can be sent from one connector to another
Hope that makes sense
Ref voltages , multimeter set to volts DC on the ABS connector number 28 it just says ignition live, so I would assume it will give u the battery voltage with the engine off, is around 12.6 Vdc
However sometimes there’s a voltage reducer within looms , don’t wish to confuse matters but as it says ign live just see what voltages u get there please using ur multimeter
Ref, steering wheel angle sensor , wheels being straight are more important than ur steering wheel, of course 4 x wheel alignment should sort that out , using a specialist Hunter system
That angle sensor basically tells the system what direction ur wheels are at, so u set them with the wheels dead straight, if the sensor degrees are out the system think the wheels are turned which can cause all sorts of issues, lights on the dash etc
U can of course after the angle sensor has been done to take the steering wheel off and move it straight , but best way is, wheels dead straight , reset angle sensor to zero, then get the alignment done with the Hunter machine
So personally would
Remove battery leads and battery
Carefully remove ECM that’s behind ur TCM module and check connector and pins, plus any signs of water ingress
Put wheels dead straight, check degrees using ur iid, if out reset to zero
Please let us know what u find
Hope that’s helps
20th Feb 2021 12:45 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14177
Meant to ask, what multimeter are u using please, make and model number if I may ask , many thks
20th Feb 2021 12:55 pm
TyphoonDisco
Member Since: 18 Jan 2021
Location: Morpeth
Posts: 102
Hi Gary,
I stripped the ECM out and it looks very clean. I've attached a photo which is hopefully clear to see.
I've worked out how to do the continuity check, my multimeter is slightly confusing in that it can be selected to Ohms (the Omega symbol) and then a different setting which I assume is continuity because it beeps when you present it with a closed circuit such as touching the ends of the sensors together. I've attached a photo of my multimeter with the switch set to continuity. ->|- The model is a Fluke 77.
My question is now, what should I be testing for continuity? Are we talking about one end of the loom to the other? Where would these points be? Is it the twisted CAN BUS wires I need to test?
Reference the steering, I've confirmed that the front wheels are dead straight and calibrated the steering to zero. This means when I'm driving and the steering wheel is cocked off slightly to the right, the live value of steering is approx 5 degrees.
Thanks again Gary,
All the best.
Jamie
20th Feb 2021 6:11 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14177
Hi Jamie
That’s an awesome multimeter, seeing it’s made by fluke
Many thks ,great the ECM is all ok as that would have been one expensive module to replace
Ref meter , the ohms is to check resistance through a wire , or testing a thermistor , solonoid etc , other one being the continuity is simply testing that a wire or from point A to B hasn’t got any breaks in it
So ref continuity testing , need to ensure all the ground are spot on using the multimeter setting , ref the ones behind the headlight , one behind the drivers side wheel arch liner, so we can rule them out 100%
personally would remove them, clean using some Emery paper or dremel , clean the body mounting bolts with a small wire brush , refix adding some battery terminal grease , have included a video to ensure using a multimeter can see if there’s good ground points
Apologises if you’ve done these already , would just hate to miss something and of course saving u from banging ur head against the wall and not ensuring 100% there working perfectly
Suppose when I done fault finding on boilers etc learnt to cover the basics 100% first before moving on
If the fault is still there we know grounds are perfect to test from if we need to start testing connector ground etc
Sorry waffling, hope the video is useful to u and apologises being so boring in keep gassing , lol
Hope that helps
20th Feb 2021 8:59 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14177
This is what I used when I done all my earthing body points
Ps , canbus wires, there ok as getting 60ohms when u done the other test, also just quickly , did u take a pic of the TCM module pins and connector plse, just to see how bad the green was and if it was just on the module or connector as well
Many thks
20th Feb 2021 9:04 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14177
Also used this for when I’ve wished to clean connectors up , ie spraying module pins and connector before refitting
Member Since: 18 Jan 2021
Location: Morpeth
Posts: 102
Gary,
Can you please do me a favour, it looks like you also have a Disco 3. Can you tell me if you get a clicking from Relay 4 every 15 seconds or so when the ignition is on. It's the relay for heated mirrors and headlight wash. Mine clicks over and over every 15 seconds.
I'm just wondering if this is part of the issue.
Thanks,
Jamie
20th Feb 2021 9:23 pm
TyphoonDisco
Member Since: 18 Jan 2021
Location: Morpeth
Posts: 102
Hi Gary
Sorry, I've just seen your other posts from 2104. I didn't take any photos inside the TCM before cleaning it. The actual connectors and the pins are squeaky clean, it just looks like some oxidisation/greening of some of the small teeth that come out of some of the chips inside. Not sure of what the effect of that will be so I will just change the TCM when the new one arrives.
Thanks for the info on the grease and cleaner. I will invest in both!
I'm also going to get at the earth connections tomorrow with some emery paper and a wire brush.
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I will be purchasing a TCM ECU flash from him once the new one arrives (ordered yesterday!)
