if the jack lets go (because of mechanical failure) the failure rate ought to be very low & not due to manufacturing or materials issues. In this case its the design / specification at fault (other jacking system would be better / safer
if the thing wears i.e. screw thread in nut that strips its thread & can be prevented by oiling the thing with real oil not wd40.....its worth oiling up with oil that sticks on.
if its the jack getting skewed beacuse of unlevel ground or the vehicle moving its another matter...that should be prevented by the use of chocks....& being very carefull
I did have a Disco 2 nearly wound off a tyre shop ramp by a tyer fitter that didnt realise the issue of a 4WD...being connected despite being told by me beforehand.
DG not scaremongering at all ...if someone gets hurt its another matter...seriously we dont want anyone to get hurt do we ?
&...this isnt a breakdown situation - where you wont maybe complete your journey issue...an inconvenience etc.
I still dont get the use of the word emergency for the jack...its for "emergency use" only
......you are given or are sold one jack....its not as though you have a normal one & then this is for emergencies....I realise some will cart 2 jacks inthe D3/4...but some isnt all
The issue is the jack isnt that good & the vehicle is a heavy one & the critical 3rd factor the user.......the one unpredictable variable not knowing or realising, carelessless, complacent or non thinking use.
I thought that was what this forum was all about identifying situations, risks issues & solving them in some way or other...it has or should include safety situations...[b]that are significant...like dropping the corner of your D3/4 onto yourself [/b].
If Land Rover arent going to do a warning why cant all those on here be mailed with a warning mail ?
that would be a proactive measure.
There are individuals that are of the opinion it wont happen to them......maybe.....but I dont beleive in a flat earth currently & they should be made aware of gravity & its effects.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
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D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
9th Jun 2014 11:01 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
Put in a search for "scissor jack failure" and the subject comes up for almost every manufacturer 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
9th Jun 2014 11:05 am
Redgull
Member Since: 30 Aug 2013
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 1127
i will ask one simple question only, on any car ever made is it acceptable that the maker of the car puts a jack of any kind in the boot that will probably fail after a couple of uses???? if the awnser is yes then the dealers are idiots, if any member agrees then sorry to be blunt
9th Jun 2014 5:47 pm
highbayrack
Member Since: 09 Jul 2008
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 2776
if I had a flat on anything other than a motorway I would change the wheel myself, with caution, with the OEM supplied jack in my MY14 D4. However, the worrying thing is that if my wife had a flat on her D3 whilst I was away she might be tempted to have a go and change it herself, with or without assistance Therefore having read this threat I'm going to invest tomorrow in a couple of suitable bottle jacks and the necessary adaptors, so in simple terms can anyone recommend a good quality 2 stage bottle jack and who sells these adaptors for the D3/4 please On a mission to find the perfect Pork Pie. Just Found it (I think)..(Yes I have)
Official product sponsor for "Bloodhound SSC" 1000+ mph world land speed record
Put in a search for "scissor jack failure" and the subject comes up for almost every manufacturer
does this make it acceptable for Land Rover...or for that matter any car maker ?
the mail above sums the situation up very succinctly -
could you please tell me: why not a D3 site warning ?BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
9th Jun 2014 6:27 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
Because a proportion of things fail Bruce ...humans ...machines ..everthing
All of the warnings are contained in every user manual 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
9th Jun 2014 6:34 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14478
Re: Sorry DG
Quote:
could you please tell me: why not a D3 site warning ?
What other warnings should the site put up?
Cars can maim and kill
Don't look down the barrel of a loaded gun whilst holding the trigger
Don't look for a gas leak with a lighted match
It's a case of commonsense. The world is not perfect, things break and fail despite the best intentions of those that designed and built them. If people were being maimed and killed on a regular basis and LR was aware of it then they will change it but if they aren't, well then its good enough.
9th Jun 2014 7:08 pm
Richie63
Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: Kent
Posts: 494
I lifted mine over the weekend to replace all 4 wheels, I hasten to add not using the supplied scissor jack, but using my Costco 2.5 tonne trolley jack, I have lifted many cars over the years so it's nothing new to me but I have to admit lifting the D3 was challenging.
Before I started I read up on the various posts on here concerning the subject and even read the handbook and decided I would do it exactly as the hand book says.
So put it into off Road height, and auto box in park and chocked the wheels, ok done everything by the book so can't be wrong, so I thought.
Starting at the front n/s with my jack under the jacking hole so in the normal scissor jacking point I get roughly 3 inches lift when the suspension starts hissing and the car starts moving itself into extended mode.
Oh dear I thought, that shouldn't have happened and immediately started to lower the jack only to then find that as I lowered it back down it was going down much further than it should have done, I now had one very Weird looking D3, with the back in extended and the front end virtually on the floor, oh I thought I've it.
In desperation I quickly started the car and reset the suspension, phew.
So I now decided to try with the tail gate open as I had read others have used, but still it went into extended, this time I just decided to keep going, but this started to become really hard work it felt as if the car was trying to push back down in that corner and my 2.5 tonne jack was really struggling when I managed to get the wheel off the ground the car was now seriously high up and very scary looking.
No way could I have done this with the scissor jack.
9th Jun 2014 7:41 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
Best to keep a passenger door open as this inhibits the air suspension from doing anything it shouldn't 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
9th Jun 2014 7:50 pm
Barn1e D3 Decade
Member Since: 28 Aug 2006
Location: Mid-sussex
Posts: 2021
So many opinions in such a short time. I looked at this last year when my son designed a new jack as part of an engineering degree project. Regrettably he did not have to complete the design and test to pass the module!
I think the answer probably lies in use of the jack in "perfect conditions". Unfortunately these are seldom around when you need them, either when travelling or on the drive!
I recently saw a trolley jack used with a smallish car facing down a drive. Even that failed because of the sideways pressure applied, distorting the arms.
Finally, even if the jack looks new, if you have not had the car from new, it is very hard to tell if it has been strained to a point of future failure. Caveat Emptor.
I wait to be shot down in flames.2005, TDV6 S, Auto, 190k miles, owned from new, V8 Brake Upgrade, Nancom Evo, RLD protector, BAS EGR blanking & Remap, separate ATF cooler, changing all the fluids ahead of time.
9th Jun 2014 7:58 pm
Richie63
Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: Kent
Posts: 494
Ok thanks DG will bear that in mind, but why no mention of this in the hand book and can't help thinking, I hope I never have to change a wheel if it's persistently raining
9th Jun 2014 8:02 pm
r4ff
Member Since: 30 Apr 2013
Location: York
Posts: 512
When ever I've jacked my car, I've always slid axle stands under well before the wheels leave the ground. That way if the jack does fail, I can keep my legs (i have a nasty habit of letting my legs wander underneath when jacking) and I don't get any expensive Hub/Brake damage.
On the plus side, I recently got hold of a 10t bottle jack from some Bedford FRSEs getting cast... shouldn't have a problem with lift height or weight rating with this one what is this life, if full of care?
we have no time to stand and stare.
10th Jun 2014 6:24 pm
grahamk
Member Since: 28 Feb 2010
Location: Dumgoyne
Posts: 1473
I dont have much faith in the standard jack. On another note I had a failure on the e39 yesterday...not the jack but jacking point. Car ended up on its . New jacking point is a trolley jack on the rear subframe.
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10th Jun 2014 7:18 pm
nighthawk
Member Since: 24 Jul 2010
Location: Malta
Posts: 1163
Re: Sorry DG
Moo wrote:
Quote:
could you please tell me: why not a D3 site warning ?
What other warnings should the site put up?
Cars can maim and kill
Don't look down the barrel of a loaded gun whilst holding the trigger
Don't look for a gas leak with a lighted match
It's a case of commonsense. The world is not perfect, things break and fail despite the best intentions of those that designed and built them. If people were being maimed and killed on a regular basis and LR was aware of it then they will change it but if they aren't, well then its good enough.
If the jack buckles under load, you can easily blame the user. Incorrect usage. RTFM. Most of the failures google picks are are this type.
Stripped threads are another matter and seems like the predominant cause of failure on the D3 jack. First of all, it's not unheard of with other manufacturers, but definitely in a minority compared to the scissor jack failures buckling under load, but more importantly, how can you avoid it??? What sort of incorrect usage results in stripping the threads? Is using the jack at all considered incorrect usage? After all you can't go very wrong. You just turn the thing! I'm pretty sure no incorrect usage results in stripped threads other than storing it in the sea. Correct me if I'm wrong but the manual does not mention any greasing or oiling of the jack threads. Or using high pressure lubricating oil when using the jack. So why does it strip?
It's very easy to see... the threads are simply not big and fat enough enough to safely be used to lift a 3 ton truck. It's like putting a mini gearbox into a big 4x4. It will probably JUST work if you treat it like a baby and don't exceed 2% travel on the gas pedal and change the oil every 20 miles. Does that mean it's fit for purpose?Dennis
2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Commercial Manual Buckingham Blue
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sorry to be blunt 
Therefore having read this threat I'm going to invest tomorrow in a couple of suitable bottle jacks and the necessary adaptors, so in simple terms can anyone recommend a good quality 2 stage bottle jack and who sells these adaptors for the D3/4 please 
I thought I've 
and can't help thinking, I hope I never have to change a wheel if it's persistently raining 
