hi, going to buy a bottle jack, what height does it need to go up to get the wheel off, loads on ebay, is 350mm high enough???
...simple answer is no
have a look through this previous thread..
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic109255-45.html
last couple of pages list some outlets & sizes....BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
Last edited by BLFarrar on 8th Jun 2014 10:18 pm. Edited 1 time in total
8th Jun 2014 9:55 pm
Redgull
Member Since: 30 Aug 2013
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 1127
I wonder how often the ground is perfectly level when these jacks are used for changing a wheel at the roadside?
I would say rarely - thats why you have the wheels chocks to go under the same axle opposite side wheel...to limit / eliminate the movement of the vehicle when it is jacked
I have jacked the D3 & other cars that when wheel clear the vehicle moves ever so slightly the vehicle settles - I always lower the jack & start again...not an issue when wheel (even punctured one) still on D3/4.
I also have a small square of plywood to go under th jack for soft ground (as is usual at the side of the road)
LT wrote:
used the LR jack a few times, as with all jacks, unless I've got the vehicle on axle stands or similar I make sure I'm not in a position to get hurt if the jack collapses.
you'd be a very very silly to even think about being underneath or unable to move back if the jack collapsed - the danger period is vehicle "UP" & you are removing or replacing the wheel from the hub you have to actually be hold of the wheel to lift it from the floor to the hub...so you are close enough.
always be in a position to roll or move away & not get in the way of a rapidly collapsing vehicle.
what puzzles me is that LR used to supply a hydraulic jack with previous discos....these were stowed in the engine bay so the argument a hydraulic bottle jack doesn't go into where the existing scissor jack fits is correct.....but what possessed them to specify & supply the one they do ?
what gives me nightmares is seeing someone trapped under a vehicle with a failed jack....& having to give help....maybe the one use of a scissors jack that could be justified.
a comparison
- My works vehicle VW Golf has the same type of jack...a scissor...it fastens under the bodywork..but the car is that light you can almost jack it up with a ball point pen as the winder & it doesn't have to go that far up as the suspension travel very short...you dont get wheel chocks
- My Jag XK has the type of scissor jack, is applied to the body of the XK....it doesn't have to go far up as suspension travel isn't that far & the vehicle is relatively light...you do get wheel chocks.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
8th Jun 2014 10:17 pm
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
touch wood I've never had to use the LR Jack - I've always had a trolley jack to hand - even the other week when I lost an MTR outside a compete strangers house
but as mentioned on here, chock it properly, crack the nuts before jacking and always always always shove the spare under the sill whilst you're jacking up and when you swap wheels on the studs, stick the off-coming wheel back under the sill - oh and never stick your head in under the wheel arch
if the jack lets go because of a mechanical failure then thats a different matter, but at least if you follow the above your chances of getting hurt are extremely low and you can recover the situation (with another jack)Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
8th Jun 2014 11:52 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14478
If you're using the jack as prescribed to change a wheel, why would any part of your body be in a position to get trapped or damaged should it collapse?
I must say I can't think of many scenarios where you'd use it any way: If you get a puncture on the road, let your recovery company deal with it and if you're off road then these jacks are not designed for that so you need to go better prepared. Also its not designed for wheel swapping or lifting to do work under the car, again you need a jack specifically for that.
However, I agree the LR jack is pretty poor, but then scissor jacks in general are poor.
9th Jun 2014 6:28 am
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20853
What if you dont have a recovery service?
Fact still stands that the OEM jack is , and not upto the job of lifting a D3My D3 Build Thread
If you're using the jack as prescribed to change a wheel, why would any part of your body be in a position to get trapped or damaged should it collapse?
OK lets break it down into sections...
1) getting jack nto place under the vehicle - not dangerous
2) loosening wheels nuts with vehicle - not dangerous
3) jacking corner of car up - not dangerous providing you are at arms length mode
4) vehicle up - wheel corner off ground - wheel still on - not dangerous
5) removing wheel i.e. slackening nuts - not dangerous until you are down to say the last one
6) removing wheel from hub - dangerous..unless you are a tame gorrila.....the mass (weight in kgs) demands that you are close to the wheel & near the vehicle.. to lift & move it........if the vehicle plummets down so does the wheel...if you are either holding or near the wheel - potentially very dangerous
7) wheel suspended with wheel off...the moments you have the car like this - not dangerous if youre not near the vehicle
eight) placing replacement wheel onto vehicle....you have to lift it to enageg the hub spigot ....again you have to be relatively close to the vehicle....same as (6) - potentially dangerous
9) wheel on wiotha few nuts (even finger tight) - not dangerous
10) lowering car down - - not dangerous
11) tightening all the nuts - not dangerous
12) Removing jack - not dangerous
unless you have different ways of changing a wheel (maybe magic) thats the way it is
of course you can expect to have this done by others...the risks are just the same..the hazard
remains that is if you use the LR supplied jack or arent carefull with any other jack.
is it realistic to expect you can get a resue service & depend on this ?
or
to expect this reduce the unsafe issue of the LR jack in some way ?
ps..... had to write eight as if you put 8 in a bracket you get a smiley face ...I dont think a smiley face goes in here...BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
9th Jun 2014 6:52 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
They have a failure rate just like anything else mechanical. What is fact is the usual scaremongering bull that comes with those occasional failures.
Anyway "Mercedes Sprinter Jacks are the answer ....."
Oh wait ......they are a pile of too 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
9th Jun 2014 6:56 am
nighthawk
Member Since: 24 Jul 2010
Location: Malta
Posts: 1163
Yep. OEM jack is . In my opinion it should not have been allowed on the vehicle. We're living in a world where everything must be tested to at least 3 times the intended usage before it gets approved. So if destined to lift a 1.5 ton corner of a car, the jack must be tested at least at 4.5 tons. I wonder what the OEM jack was tested on. An empty car without seats? Probably it works fine on a dry weight vehicle but will fail with a full tank of diesel.
Absolute emergency use or not, it should be hefty enough to withstand the intended usage in not-so-ideal conditions. As mentioned previously, you cannot bet on the car needing a spare tyre on level ground on a sunny day. That's why the chocks are provided. Yes axle stands are a necessity in any case. Even for changing a wheel. I always put an axle stand under there before the wheel comes off.
My old Austin Metro 1.0 jack was very very close to the LR OEM jack in terms of heftiness and screw thread and that thing had a kerb weight of 800kg or so. It lasted over 20 years with frequent use (bad roads and bad tyres) on all road surfaces, inclines, declines, using a stone as a chock etc. The only major difference is the LR jack is longer so as to reach higher.Dennis
2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Commercial Manual Buckingham Blue
9th Jun 2014 7:01 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
That's quite hilarious ....lot's of wondering, probably and should be's 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
9th Jun 2014 7:11 am
Garagegmx
Member Since: 09 Feb 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 916
I've used the OEM jack quite a bit. Knowing its limitations is half the battle. I use a block of wood underneath it, make sure as far as practical its level and watch it on the way up. If it leans, then I reposition it and start again. So long as your careful, it can be used for emergencies.
9th Jun 2014 7:30 am
nighthawk
Member Since: 24 Jul 2010
Location: Malta
Posts: 1163
Yep... the OEM jack always brings in a lot of "wondering" and "probably"
Wondering if it will lift the car.... wondering if it will let go at the worst time...
Probably will be fine... oh wait... probably not because I'm on a 0.05 degree incline.
"Oh come on... the failure rate is pretty low (like what... 2%?). On the forums only the people who've had it fail post.... Probably won't happen to me... or maybe I'm about to join the 2%?"
Dennis
2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Commercial Manual Buckingham Blue
9th Jun 2014 7:35 am
DiscoJake
Member Since: 23 Aug 2013
Location: Hereford
Posts: 1429
you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?
9th Jun 2014 7:44 am
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
what I really don't like about the LR jack is that you have to jack the car so high - when you shove a trolley jack under the wish bone directly behind the wheel you go nowhere near as highSteve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
9th Jun 2014 9:18 am
jonnybgud
Member Since: 18 Dec 2013
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 397
I changed all four wheels using the standard jack, didn't look like it had been used previously (no paint missing around the winder)... but it does now its been up & down four times, she's worn out and ready for the bin
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thanks mate
| 08MY Discovery 3 (history) 
, and not upto the job of lifting a D3
