Member Since: 27 Jun 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2707
DSL wrote:
Agreed re it looking wrong. It’s not just the , it’s the whole package. I think the front is worse than the back.
At least I’m being polite, SWMBO describes it as “gopping”, a word she’s never uttered before.
PS Begs the question, how can LR get some models so right (last 2 FFRRs, RRS2 & New Deafner) and another so wrong?
The new sport is nice, but the last one was cooler
The D5 front is really nice...never use seat 6/7 in d4 or d5 but never had any complaints from anyone in the rear.
I’ve owned every discovery and the d5 is a natural evolution and great place to beMike
10th Jan 2021 1:36 pm
mse
Member Since: 27 Jun 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2707
Red Merle wrote:
RRSTDV8 wrote:
Series, yes. Defender? Maybe the 130. 90 and 110 were all side hung weren't they? A drop down pickup tail isn't the same as a Disco split .
What difference does it make if it was fitted to a Series, or Defender? For some of us, a side mounted tailgate is an utterly hopeless anachronism.
Let’s not forget the series split tailgate and the pickup defenders drop tailgate were just as useless as the door, it’s the same opening, excluding the hicapacity pickup
Defender side opening door is no more or less than any other model and fine a bale of straw went in their fineMike
10th Jan 2021 1:39 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
It’s not the aperture that I’m concerned about.
The side opening door is great for mounting a spare wheel, but:
1. You need a lot of space behind the car to open it.
2. There’s no platform to sit on to change your boots / for the dog to sit there and enjoy a 180 degree view / provide a work bench & a dog maintenance table / make it easy to load heavy items (where two people can lift something on to the tailgate from either side).
3. There’s no shelter from the rain.
4. You can’t fold the door back properly if the spare is mounted on it (meaning you can’t reverse up close to a loading bay, or even load from the pavement on one side if you’re parked parallel to the kerb and there’s a car behind you.
5. I can’t use the dog ramp to let the dog in and out from the car when there’s no room behind.
The side hinged gate is very “cute”, but a Defender should be function before form 👍2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
10th Jan 2021 4:47 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
Yep.
I suspect the reasons behind fitting a side hinged door on the Series/Defenders were for ease of fitting (no struts etc.), simplicity and cost. As well as a place to hang a spare wheel.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
10th Jan 2021 5:55 pm
defector
Member Since: 23 Feb 2009
Location: Greater Manchester
Posts: 1476
And possibly because it makes for a stiffer bodyshell and therefore safer in the vent of a roll?
The reason why, maybe all modern vehicles have smaller window apertures throughout.
11th Jan 2021 2:56 am
mse
Member Since: 27 Jun 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2707
The defenders door has always been side swung and its effectiveness is no worse or better (new defender is a bigger opening)- i think it works better being side hung and where would the tyre go?
The disco should have had the range rover style of tailgate i think
The best option was the RRS opening glass - to be fair in all other options you need space behind, a side opening door the space to open it is the space to workMike
11th Jan 2021 8:20 am
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
defector wrote:
And possibly because it makes for a stiffer bodyshell and therefore safer in the vent of a roll?
The reason why, maybe all modern vehicles have smaller window apertures throughout.
I was referring to the original series/Defenders.
You’re right though, on a monocoque the smaller the apertures the stiffer/stronger the body is.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
11th Jan 2021 8:28 am
astonbuilder
Member Since: 29 Sep 2006
Location: MIDLANDS
Posts: 8147
I've driven and had lots of D3's, D4's, D5's and RRS's.
D3 was a 'game changer' vehicle and I think D4 continued that despite blinging it up a bit it wasn't too OTT.
D5 is, IMO, a superb vehicle but the up-speccing, whilst very nice, went too far really. Current HSE Lux is just like sitting in a FFRR in reality. I often questioned where it's USP was in the model range and other than 'full-size seven seater' I couldn't add much more.
The Defender is the true 'replacement' for D3/4 and I said that well before it was launched. Forget what name is on the badge, it's the successor to the original D3/4.
I think the availability of Defender pushes the 'where does it fit' question on D5 further into the open. The 'brand' is there but needs a rethink on it now.
Back in the day I often flipped between the D3/4 and RRS, especially as the bling was added to the D4 as the model updates leap-frogged between the two ranges on tech' but with same engine/gearbox option eventually. The D4 always felt 'more for the same' given similarity from driver seat and then the practicality behind you to just open it up and chuck stuff in as a family man.
In more recent times I stuck with RRS as the option of the V8d engine aced it there and no need for the load-lugging/seven seat capability required (and I've never found the RRS boot to be 'too small'......ever).
I've had five V8d RRS's back-to-back now and my sixth is the i6 350d (an absolute peach of an engine and definitely 'better' than the V8d ) so when the D5 has that same option I'll again have a choice to make.
Likely is though I'll stick with RRS as I don't need the 'practicality' the D5 offers (there isn't a better load-lugger in all the years of kids and uni' and even house moves), and I find the suspension a bit wallowy in the D5, although I am sure you get used to it when not directly comparing.
Still don't like that rear end number plate thing going on with the D5 though
11th Jan 2021 9:48 am
mark the spark
Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: southampton
Posts: 2531
i do wonder if they ever admitted defeat and remodelled the rear how many more sales theyd get
but guess if you dont need the 7 seats its straight to the new D6 err i mean defender for most of us MY05 SE D3 Manual my first LR what a car
MY10 HSE D4 auto
MY14 XXV more buttons than the spaceshuttle
11th Jan 2021 9:51 am
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13605
astonbuilder wrote:
I often questioned where it's USP was in the model range and other than 'full-size seven seater' I couldn't add much more.
I think that's the D5's biggest problem. Yes, we have a good laugh at the styling (all entirely subjective and thus DG is quite right to tell us we're all wrong! ), but really what is it for if you don't need 7 seats? And if you do need 7 seats, there is a host of alternatives around now that do the job for a lot less cash. Assuming brilliant off road capability isn't required - and it really isn't in the vast majority of cases - the D5 offers little that e.g. the Skoda Kodiaq does. And the Skoda is half the price of the D5. Available with 4wd if that's a "nice to have" requirement.
The Defender replaces the D4 in most people's minds, meaning the D5 seems a little out of place in the range. Likewise the Velar - the RRS does all and more that the Velar does, and if you want a small RR then the Evoque does that very well.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
11th Jan 2021 11:03 am
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
Didn't the Velar just pop up as a bit of a surprise almost entirely as a result of the Jaguar F-Pace work - I actually think the Velar does have a good place in the RR line up between the Evoque and the Sport as a stepping stone bridge up the RR aspirational ladder.
As for the D5 and its future... well DG has had his 2/3 years (according to his sig), may be his next move will give us a hint? Does he go D5 again, or follow a few of us to the Defender. THIS is the $64,000 question!!!! Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
11th Jan 2021 11:12 am
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73131
Never really thought of DG as a trend setter but now you mention it.
11th Jan 2021 11:14 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
This will be my last new LR for a while when it goes back in March I suspect... a huge reevaluation of my requirements has taken place over the Covid period...in particular, paying to look at a motor sat outside and doing less than 1k miles in a year. There are 3 motors in a family of 3 so really questioning the need. In addition, I'm in the process of buying a new house ....and they don't come cheap in Surrey. When some semblance of normality returns I suspect I will be looking for a full EV for commuting into the smoke.
None of the above changes my view of the D5 though, I have thoroughly enjoyed the time I had with it. 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
11th Jan 2021 11:31 am
pjm-84
Member Since: 04 Oct 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2608
Just bought an ID3 for work. Really nice drive.
11th Jan 2021 12:03 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73131
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, it’s the whole package. I think the front is worse than the back.
), but really what is it for if you don't need 7 seats? And if you do need 7 seats, there is a host of alternatives around now that do the job for a lot less cash. Assuming brilliant off road capability isn't required - and it really isn't in the vast majority of cases - the D5 offers little that e.g. the Skoda Kodiaq does. And the Skoda is half the price of the D5. Available with 4wd if that's a "nice to have" requirement.
