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Grouse
Member Since: 08 Feb 2012
Location: on the hill
Posts: 6
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LT you are missing the whole point. The link to the test at Mira you posted on the other thread was undertaken in a Ford Focus.
Yes, on a conventional car with Winter v Summer Tyres, there will be a difference. But the discussion is regarding a 4x4 and is not a direct comparison - without exception most come from the factory with multi Terrain Tyres or M&S Tyres. Furthermore, hardly anybody I know fits dedicated road going tyres to a 4x4.
I and others are referring to running Wintrac's all year round as an alternative to an All Terrain Tyre. To be of any value the comparison should therefore be between Winter and AT Tyres - not summer tyres.
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 14th Feb 2012 10:55 pm |
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Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
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This keeps going on and on
Put aside using Winters Off Road let’s take Winter Tyre Testing something I’m involved in quite a bit, with motor manufacturers not Tyre makers / retailers this way the info is relevant and not sales based.
Firstly testing is generally based on medium sized cars as this is what most people have to drive “a summer tyre†does not really exist as if it did you would have to fit a “Winter tyre†by definition, so they are “All Season†tyres D3’s & D4’s are the salient point here as this is that forum,
They leave / left the factory in 19’s as this is what you are debating with Pirelli Scorpion Zero this is given a rating of
5 - for wet n dry Roads
1 – Snow – Rocks - Grass & Mud
Also Goodyear UHP has similar ranks
NO Factory Standard D3 /D4 has left with all terrain tyres so if you wish to test there’s your base.
Tyres have a slide bar, or Cause / Effect Ying & Yang (you get the picture) there really is no total jack of all trades (All Terrain) come closest BFG, General oh and Pirelli  but the slide bar dictates if its good on road , off road tractability is compromised . If it’s designed to be good in the winter then summer average temp performance will not be so good etc etc.
Another point A Winter Tyre is not a Snow tyre in fact there’s a push to refer to them as cold weather tyres to try and gain acceptability in the market.
Remember if you are lucky enough to own/drive a Discovery three or four you are piloting one of the most capable vehicles out there yes it will go in most conditions and with skill stop and turn but those black rubber things are all that keeps you in contact with earth so any additional assistance give you that edge the rest of the world has to make do with non LR products and that’s were the battle lies.
Me I’ve run the BMW 530d Saloon all winter on Winter Tyres (Conti’s) and when the temp is over 8 deg c its a pig and downright dangerous but if I had left the normal tyres on, it would be on the drive oh and I pizzed off quite a few 4x4 owners going past them when we did have that last covering
Remember Your Car Your Choice and you don’t have to defend your choice you have a site sponsor who gives advice that’s sound whether you take it your choice I could name a few on this forum who I advised to replace their lockers then a few months later there s a PM / post saying oh Fook its jammed 
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| 15th Feb 2012 7:08 am |
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AJS4X4
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3224
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Very well put.
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| 15th Feb 2012 8:30 am |
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Jorrocks
Member Since: 15 Feb 2012
Location: Bucks
Posts: 2
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Hello all,
I just signed up to this forum and FullFatRR as, being a disgruntled Toerag owner, I've seen the light and am looking to change to either a Discovery or a Range Rover (Undecided as to which yet though...).
Having read this discussion about winter / snow tyres, I'll chuck in my tuppence worth. I use Cooper winter tyres which I'm absolutely delighted with, and being lazy I never got around to removing them at the end of last winter. I've found them more than adequate for summer use, albeit with a tiny bit more road noise and slightly accelerated wear. For what it's worth, Continental say that if you are using only one set of tyres all year round then you should stick with winters.
One of the earlier posters commented that the Wintracs were useless in mud. I imagine they would be, as my understanding is that a winter tyre is designed to clog in order to run in a 'snow-on-snow' state as this is what provides grip in snow (I got this from Nokian's site!).
Jorrocks
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| 15th Feb 2012 12:22 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806
 
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Grouse wrote:LT you are missing the whole point. The link to the test at Mira you posted on the other thread was undertaken in a Ford Focus.
Yes, on a conventional car with Winter v Summer Tyres, there will be a difference. But the discussion is regarding a 4x4 and is not a direct comparison - without exception most come from the factory with multi Terrain Tyres or M&S Tyres. Furthermore, hardly anybody I know fits dedicated road going tyres to a 4x4.
I and others are referring to running Wintrac's all year round as an alternative to an All Terrain Tyre. To be of any value the comparison should therefore be between Winter and AT Tyres - not summer tyres.
Grouse, read my previous post and you'll see a link to 4X4, albeit a Mini.
I'd love to get a test together using a D3/4 with the standard oe tyre (Pirelli or Goodyear) and an Wintracs. I hoping Andy will cooperate in making it happen.
I think you're missing the point in using a Winter tyre as an alternative to an All Terrain tyre, but each to their own.
By fitting a Winter tyre to a heavy 4X4, you'll not change the compound etc of that tyre. So the braking characteristics will still be same.
When you slam on the brakes in a straight line, what difference will it make if you vehicle is front, rear or all wheel drive?
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| 15th Feb 2012 12:44 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806
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Jorrocks wrote:Hello all,
I just signed up to this forum and FullFatRR as, being a disgruntled Toerag owner, I've seen the light and am looking to change to either a Discovery or a Range Rover (Undecided as to which yet though...).
Having read this discussion about winter / snow tyres, I'll chuck in my tuppence worth. I use Cooper winter tyres which I'm absolutely delighted with, and being lazy I never got around to removing them at the end of last winter. I've found them more than adequate for summer use, albeit with a tiny bit more road noise and slightly accelerated wear. For what it's worth, Continental say that if you are using only one set of tyres all year round then you should stick with winters.
One of the earlier posters commented that the Wintracs were useless in mud. I imagine they would be, as my understanding is that a winter tyre is designed to clog in order to run in a 'snow-on-snow' state as this is what provides grip in snow (I got this from Nokian's site!).
Jorrocks
You (Nokian) are correct, the sipes in a Winter tyre will trap snow as you describe. So yes, they'll trap mud and very quickly turn themselves into slicks.
I've got no problem at all with people running whatever tyre they want. My point has always been that when someone asks on this forum if they should run a specific use tyre all year round, that they are fully aware of the compromises.
In the case of Winter tyres, it's a well proven fact that at higher temperatures braking distances will increase significantly. So as long as you're aware of that, fine.
Good luck with deciding between the Disco and FFRR. For me the larger boot and extra seats was the deciding factor. Having driven both, I'd also stick my neck on the block and say that I think the D4 is a better drive.
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| 15th Feb 2012 12:56 pm |
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Grouse
Member Since: 08 Feb 2012
Location: on the hill
Posts: 6
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LT, this thread has now gone full circle, my reasons are below, you are welcome to have the last word, i'm Tyred of this discussion - continue wth your crusade - I'm out!
Grouse wrote:
I run a fleet of Range Rovers, used off road and towing off road on a daily basis.
I am fully aware that tyres have dedicated uses whether it is sand, mud, winter, or road. Whilst it would be delightful to have separate sets of tyres for each purpose and season, it simply isn't practical if you are driving one minute on tarmac, next on mud and the next on ice and snow.
Tyre's therefore have to be a compromise, and I have had absolutely no problems using Vreds as an all year round, winter and off road tyre. It simply would not be practical for me to repeadedly change tyres on several vehicles on a regular basis, together with the outlay on additional tyres and rims and downtime.
I am stating the facts as they are through ownership and daily use nothing more and nothing less.
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| 15th Feb 2012 12:57 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806
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Thanks Grouse, my last words to you on this subject then will be to recommend that when you next need to change a set of tyres on one of your FFRR's, try a set of All Terrains instead of Wintracs
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| 15th Feb 2012 1:06 pm |
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AJS4X4
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3224
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Sorry but this is getting silly. 
My advise to you all is drive on what floats your own boat, just don't get bullied by others.
It's your car, your life and I am sure all grown up enough to make a sound choice, I am as ever only to happy to help you with the BEST tyre to BEST suite your requirements, advice is free and I promise not to poke matches under your finger nails. 
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| 15th Feb 2012 1:47 pm |
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Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
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AJS4X4 wrote: I promise to poke matches under your finger nails.
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| 15th Feb 2012 2:14 pm |
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AJS4X4
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3224
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You left the "NOT" out slap head.
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| 15th Feb 2012 2:22 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806
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As I keep saying over & over again, all I want to do is inform the people who ask about using winter tyres (in this thread) all year round, of the consequences of doing so. As it's my firm belief, that as temperatures increase so will the vehicles braking distances. This I hope will give them the information they need to make an informed choice of which tyre to use. What they decide upon is up to them and if I agree with their choice or not is irrelavent.
If that's seen as bullying or upsetting to anyone then I apologise to them.
To those who disagree that Wintracs have an increased braking distance in comparison to the oe fit tyres at higher temperatures, help me to arrange a relevant test at MIRA.
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| 15th Feb 2012 2:55 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806
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Deleting double post.
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| 15th Feb 2012 2:59 pm |
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Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
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AJS4X4 wrote:You left the "NOT" out slap head.
Nope 
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| 15th Feb 2012 3:01 pm |
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AJS4X4
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3224
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I can't understand how you got the last word in Ken.
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| 15th Feb 2012 5:25 pm |
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