DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Enjoying my Wintrac Xtremes

Grouse

Member Since: 08 Feb 2012
Location: on the hill
Posts: 6

11th Feb 2012 9:53 pm

AJS4X4

Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3224

Like a drop of "THE FAMOUS" myself from time to time.

I think we all best "agree to disagree" on this one.

Have to add that they have a massive fan base and we have never had any negative reports except from the forum maffia.

12th Feb 2012 8:16 am

LT

Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806

2016 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 Landmark LE Auto Santorini Black

Andy/Grouse, I'm not knocking the Wintracs, here's what I said about them :

"We both agreed that they were excellent in really cold weather and on the ice and snow in the winter of 2010/11. They were quite (until they got down to 3-4mm when noise was more apparent, but they were ready for the bin then anyway). Steering feel was good and braking seemed fine. They were useless in muddy conditions, clogging almost instantly. Although on grass and rough tracks there was no noticeable difference between them and Goodyear Wranglers. As temperatures rose the tread depth was down to about 5mm and braking performance began to drop off".

Grouse, not sure why you think the above is rubbish?

Imo, wintracs are a good value mid-range winter/ cold weather tyre.

What I'm knocking is posts that do not point out the compromises of using a dedicated use tyre.

I think Ken makes a very relevant and valid point in the quote below, one that I've also made on several occasions, in that the D3/4 is hugely capable regardless of tyre type. It's this fact that makes for such emotive posts here on the subject of tyres.

"I can tell you that any winter tyre is not ok in mud as they are not designed to work in those conditions .the simple fact why people think that a winter tyre is ok on a D3 etc is they are very capable in the first place . Try a normal car on winters above the 7 degs and it's a very different story .but hey if your happy then do it it's your car. I for one will never run winters all year and am aware of the pro and cons "

I've driven my own Saab (also a friends Audi A3) with winter tyres fitted and there's a world of difference between how they perform at 15C and -6C. Like Ken, I also wouldn't dream of running them all year round on any vehicle. The same view that is taken by the vast majority of winter tyre users across Europe and World.

A friend of mine lives in Denmark and drives across Scandinavia, he's never heard of anyone running winter tyres on any vehicle during the summer months. Indeed as an enthusiastic petrol head (Andy he used to post on the HSV forum when he had a VT) he finds this hilarious.

AJS4X4 wrote:
Don't think we are going to change LT's mind on this one

I trully think he was beaten at birth with a Vredestein tyre which has twisted his mind on this winter tyre which is a great shame as most know how great this tyre is.

The stats stack up as you will see from all the positive posts on this tyre.

So Andy, are you telling us that the Vredestein Wintrac is not a Winter tyre (as Vredestein state) but is in fact an all year round tyre regardless of wherever you live in Cornwall or The Highlands and that they suffer no loss in braking performance or increased wear rate at higher temperatures? Yes or no?

13th Feb 2012 4:20 pm

AJS4X4

Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3224

LT wrote:

So Andy, are you telling us that the Vredestein Wintrac is not a Winter tyre (as Vredestein state) but is in fact an all year round tyre regardless of wherever you live in Cornwall or The Highlands and that they suffer no loss in braking performance or increased wear rate at higher temperatures? Yes or no?

We all know the Vredestein Wintrac 4 Xtreme is a winter tyre, the clue is in the name.

I have never said at anytime that this is an all year round tyre but "can" be used all year round with no problem.

What would you rather drive on; a winter tyre in the summer or a summer tyre in the winter ? if you can only run one set.

The fact that we have customers getting up to 40,000 miles from their Wintracs tells me there is no increased wear rate. You are lucky to see 24,000 miles from a Pirelli Scorpion.

The feedback on the Vredestein says it all. We always spend time asking our customers what needs they have so we can help with the right choice of tyre for there useage.

I am very sorry but I can't understand why you have a problem with this, I reiterate winter tyres are recomended for winter use and summer tyres for summer use but if someone needs to run a winter tyre all year round then there are no big downsides.

Comparing winter and summer tyre stoping distances is very subjective, as it depends on which makes you are comparing, i.e. budget, mid-range or top brands, I for one would not like to drive on some brands in any conditions.

13th Feb 2012 5:25 pm

LT

Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806

AJS4X4 wrote:
[We all know the Vredestein Wintrac 4 Xtreme is a winter tyre, the clue is in the name.

I have never said at anytime that this is an all year round tyre but "can" be used all year round with no problem.

Sorry Andy, I find that a contradictory statement.

Do you agree that all Winter tyres have a higher silica content and that at higher temperatures this will increase braking distances in comparison to a Summer tyre?

It maybe not be a problem for you, but I would find it a problem, if for approx. 8 months of the year my tyres were increasing my braking distances by at least 10% (the best figure I've seen test data for and that wasn't using a near 3 ton 4X4!)

Last edited by LT on 13th Feb 2012 6:22 pm. Edited 1 time in total

13th Feb 2012 5:59 pm

longblackcoat

Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 75

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Java Black

I've run Wintracs all year round and found that they're fine as an all-round tyre. Sure, you have to be mindful of 30C temperatures in the Alpine summer, but then they only do that trip once a year. And it's not that they're terrible in hot conditions, far from it. They're just not as good as summer tyres. 10% difference? Yeah, maybe. But they grip/stop at least as well as an average (mid-price) tyre, even in the hottest weather.

In the wet though, at pretty much any temperature, they're excellent, and obviously any time from Autumn to late Spring they're at their best.

Would I benefit from another set of tyres for the summer? Yes, probably. But if I have one set only, the Wintracs better suit my needs than anything else.

Edited to say - I found my WINTER tyres to perform better in the SUMMER than the General Grabber SUMMER tyres previously fitted. Personal opinion, obviously, but then I trust my opinion over anyone else's.

13th Feb 2012 6:04 pm

LT

Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806

AJS4X4 wrote:
What would you rather drive on; a winter tyre in the summer or a summer tyre in the winter ? if you can only run one set.

Would you rather wear sandals or wellies all year round, if you could only wear one shoe? The answer, for most of us, would be wellies. But does that make wearing wellies all year round a good and sensible choice?

I do only run one set of tyres (haven't used my MTR's for ages) and I choose to run an All Terrain tyre. It's my opinion, based on having driven a D3 shod with Wintracs, that the Pirelli ATR is superior in higher temperatures For me the compromises of the ATR are better than running a Winter tyre all year round.

If people want to drive with Winter tyres all year round fine, their vehicle their choice, but be aware that Winter tyres will increase your braking distance when the temperature is above 7C.

My point is that people should be aware of this fact.

This fact could easily be proven, lets get book MIRA in the summer when the temperature is in the mid 20's and see what the results are. I'm sure we could get a tyre company to meet the costs.

Last edited by LT on 13th Feb 2012 6:34 pm. Edited 1 time in total

13th Feb 2012 6:21 pm

LT

Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806

longblackcoat wrote:
I've run Wintracs all year round and found that they're fine as an all-round tyre. Sure, you have to be mindful of 30C temperatures in the Alpine summer, but then they only do that trip once a year. And it's not that they're terrible in hot conditions, far from it. They're just not as good as summer tyres. 10% difference? Yeah, maybe. But they grip/stop at least as well as an average (mid-price) tyre, even in the hottest weather.

In the wet though, at pretty much any temperature, they're excellent, and obviously any time from Autumn to late Spring they're at their best.

Would I benefit from another set of tyres for the summer? Yes, probably. But if I have one set only, the Wintracs better suit my needs than anything else.

Edited to say - I found my WINTER tyres to perform better in the SUMMER than the General Grabber SUMMER tyres previously fitted. Personal opinion, obviously, but then I trust my opinion over anyone else's.

This post is so much more informative, than just saying that "I run Wintracs all year round and they're brilliant" etc. Just the sort of answer that people need.

13th Feb 2012 6:30 pm

LT

Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806

There's a significant difference between doing something with no problem and the potential for there to be problem.

For example, I know one strong minded fellow who flatly refuses to wear a seat belt. He never has and he'll happily tell you that he's done so for the past 40 years with NO problem.

If you agree with the argument that if you should have only one set of tyres, then it's wiser to fit winter tyres. Disregarding the fact that you're disagreeing with the opinion of all the Northern European motorists who change between winter and summer tyres ever year. Ask car manufacturers why they do not fit winter tyres as OE spec.?

If Vredestein Wintracs, which I think we all agree perform well during the Winter, can be used all year round with no potential problems, surely not only are the people of Northern Europe and all the other countries where winter tyres are regularly used, but also car manufacturers are missing a trick!

The fact that's there's a huge amount of data available showing the benefits of using winter tyres during low temperatures and barely any showing the use of winter tyres in higher temperatures, perhaps also makes a point.

Ken once posted a graph here, showing results from the testing of winter and summer tyres during the summer that, iirc, Mercedes Benz conducted. It clearly showed that winter tyres braking distances were longer than summer tyres. Ken where is it?

Crikey, it feels as if I'm on a Crusade here.

13th Feb 2012 9:32 pm

Grouse

Member Since: 08 Feb 2012
Location: on the hill
Posts: 6

you obviously have many interests

13th Feb 2012 9:49 pm

LT

Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806

Grouse wrote:
you obviously have many interests

Indeed I do Grouse. But this is the Wheels & Tyre section of the forum, so I'll not list them here. Do feel free to PM if you're really interested though, you never know we might share some

My interest in tyres started at an early age when my half brother was an amateur rally driver.

BTW, sorry you find my comments to be uneducated. No doubt there's a better class of comment on the FFRR forum. Thanks for contributing to a good debate though.

13th Feb 2012 10:14 pm

AJS4X4

Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3224

My eyes are starting to bleed on reading a few of these posts.

Shame as it all started with the statement of "Enjoying my Wintrac Xtremes" which is great to hear.

I think by now most who have used them know what works best for them.

14th Feb 2012 1:57 pm

LT

Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806

I've no issues with the Wintracs as a winter/cold weather tyre

It all started when the subject of using Winter tyres all year round came up. As always, my point is that you should make clear the compromises of using a dedicated use tyre (Winter, MTR, Snow etc.) outside of it's designed purpose.

Anyway Andy, how about a Discovery Winter Tyre v. Summer Tyre challenge at MIRA at 15+ C ? We could do wet and dry braking tests using the legendary Wintracs and say Pirelli Scorpions Zero's as the Summer tyre. Maybe compare the GG AT as well.

I reckon we could persuade a magazine to run an article on it and cover the cost of MIRA. I'm sure you could rustle up the tyres.

My money is on the Summer tyre having a braking distance of at least 10% less than the Wintracs, but I think that figure will be higher. But I'm very happy to stand corrected.

You might want to see the recent test that Autocar conducted (I'll find it and post it in a new thread when I get time) before you accept the challenge

14th Feb 2012 3:03 pm

drmcw

Member Since: 10 Mar 2009
Location: 9/10 people have trouble Reading
Posts: 1644

Quote:
I know one strong minded fellow who flatly refuses to wear a seat belt.

I'd prefer to do a test and see if his mind is as strong as a windscreen; winter or summer.

14th Feb 2012 5:31 pm

LT

Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806

He's nuts in my opinion and I've told him so.

I've an elderly client who who smokes 40 a day and drinks half a bottle of Grants every evening. He's always keen to point out he never missed a days work when he was younger and is fighting fit etc.

14th Feb 2012 6:17 pm