Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3224
I think everyone has taken on board your point of vieu LT which is about right and what some manufacturer's state, but some say if you can only afford one set of tyres, a Winter set is the best call.
But with respect you have not driven a D3/4 on these tyres and have not like us conducted our own direct test between Pirelli Scorpion and Vredestein Wintrac 4 Xtreme, and in our test the Vredestein was better in the wet and dry, of course you can only take our word for this and our very many happy customers.
8th Feb 2012 12:48 pm
dragonfly28
Member Since: 08 Jan 2012
Location: South Coast
Posts: 66
Hi Andy, having read this I just called to discuss winter tyres and got some useful advice from your colleague as you were out. Probably in touch again soon
8th Feb 2012 1:56 pm
RMB
Member Since: 20 Mar 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 260
On my third set, use them all year round.
Great tyre.
Rab.B-A-S Remap Interface giving me control over my remap
8th Feb 2012 3:13 pm
110CSW
Member Since: 19 Oct 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 796
Glad I have started a good discussion.
Personally I have a nice set of Scorpion Zeros waiting to go back on come April when the Wintracs come off but I know people who run winter tyres year round on other cars.
Once the Scorpion Zeros are finished I might fit a more road orientated summer tyre. Any thoughts?
8th Feb 2012 3:18 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806
Andy, I have both driven and been driven many times in a D3 fitted with Vredestein Wintracs. It belongs to a friend and colleague who I share an office with (you've met him when he bought some used rims and Wranglers from you). His last two D3's have been bought from a friend of his in Scotland and the latest one came with 19" Wintracs fitted. I haven't fitted winter tyres to my own D3, as their design makes them useless on muddy terrain.
We both agreed that they were excellent in really cold weather and on the ice and snow in the winter of 2010/11. They were quite (until they got down to 3-4mm when noise was more apparent, but they were ready for the bin then anyway). Steering feel was good and braking seemed fine. They were useless in muddy conditions, clogging almost instantly. Although on grass and rough tracks there was no noticeable difference between them and Goodyear Wranglers. As temperatures rose the tread depth was down to about 5mm and braking performance began to drop off.
The later point would tally with the findings of diskelly below and MarSky also states earlier in this thread that on his D4 with Wintracs fitted "they do get a bit bouncy in warm weather".
Here's the post from diskelly in Nov 2011:
I ran wintracs all last winter and they were excellent. However, in the April heat wave I had the unpleasant experience of a skidding disco . Just a small slip coming up behind traffic at lights but it gave me a scare. Swapped back to my Scorpians that weekend. However, will be putting the winter tires back on soon!
Andy, I don't have any stats from your "test". What was the road temperature? If you're telling us that the Wintrac's perform as well as a summer tyre under braking tests at the sort of temperatures we can get in the UK summer i.e up to 30C or even higher then tell Vredestein, as they will make an absolute fortune. Just think, all the motorists in Northern Europe and other parts of the world who each year switch between winter and summer tyres, will now just be able to run Wintracs all year round.
As I've said before, the Wintrac is listed in the Vredestein Winter tyre section and not in its All-Season section. Draw your own conclusions on that!
My opinion remains the same of that of the vast majority of tyre and car manufacturers in that winter tyres are for use in temperatures of 7c and below. Above that temprature the performance will be compromised.
It's that compromise that anyone who can't afford a set of used rims or find a place to store them, needs to be fully aware of if they intend to run winter tyres all year round.
8th Feb 2012 3:51 pm
Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
RMB wrote:
On my third set, use them all year round.
Great tyre.
Rab.
Summer & Scotland two words that should never be in the same sentence
8th Feb 2012 4:05 pm
RMB
Member Since: 20 Mar 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 260
That’s true Ken, maybe be a bit different south of the border. B-A-S Remap Interface giving me control over my remap
8th Feb 2012 6:46 pm
Grouse
Member Since: 08 Feb 2012
Location: on the hill
Posts: 6
First post here, over from the FFRR site I am running several RR's and on Vreds, using them off road, towing off road 4000kg, winter, summer all year round.
Sorry but I have to totally disagree with LT, my findings are the exact opposite, perhaps if he actually owned a vehicle with Vreds on and actually drove it on a daily basis and in the conditions described he could pass an educated comment.
10th Feb 2012 10:17 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73065
Ken wrote:
RMB wrote:
On my third set, use them all year round.
Great tyre.
Rab.
Summer & Scotland two words that should never be in the same sentence
Tropically balmy weather up here, over 4c at the mo.
10th Feb 2012 10:19 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23806
Grouse wrote:
First post here, over from the FFRR site I am running several RR's and on Vreds, using them off road, towing off road 4000kg, winter, summer all year round.
Sorry but I have to totally disagree with LT, my findings are the exact opposite, perhaps if he actually owned a vehicle with Vreds on and actually drove it on a daily basis and in the conditions described he could pass an educated comment.
As I've said many times before Grouse, I don't run winter tyres on my D3 as I've found from personal experience (Vredestein Wintracs) and listening to the views of other members here with different brands of winter tyres that they all clog with mud very quickly.
Winter tyres use a higher proportion of natural rubber, with silica compounds to maintain flexibility in cold conditions. Winter tyres also have far more sipes for cutting through water and deeper tread than summer tyres but the side effect is that they can make the steering feel imprecise in the dry; much effort has gone into encouraging the sipes to ‘lock’ when cornering, to reduce this effect.
At higher temperatures, on wet or dry roads, they’re not as good as summer tyres: tyre technology has moved forward a long way but temperature still has a big impact on longevity and performance.
As a result, we have summer tyres, winter tyres and all-season tyres, the last a compromise for all-year-round use but not matching the ultimate performance of either winter- or summer-specific tyres. To add further confusion, for 4x4's we also have MT and AT tyres in varying extremes.
It's just a scientific fact, that Winter tyres will not perform as well at higher temperatures. The difference in braking could be as low as only 10% (dependant on temperature) and as such there is an argument for running winter tyres all year round and of course more so for those who live north of border.
You always have to have a compromise with tyres especially if you intend to just run the one set all year round.
My point has always been to educate those who question if they should run MTR's, AT, Winter or Summer tyres all year round to be aware of the compromises in doing so.
Pirelli ATR's suit my requirements for an all round tyre perfectly, but I'll always point out that although they perform well during the winter, they'll never be as good on road as a dedicated Winter tyre when temperatures drop below 7C or as good in heavy mud as my MTR's.
11th Feb 2012 1:54 am
Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
Welcome strange first post though a direct attack also who are you over on FFRR
I can tell you that any winter tyre is not ok in mud as they are not designed to work in those conditions .the simple fact why people think that a winter tyre is ok on a D3 etc is they are very capable in the first place . Try a normal car on winters above the 7 degs and it's a very different story .but hey if your happy then do it it's your car. I for one will never run winters all year and am aware of the pro and cons
11th Feb 2012 7:19 am
AJS4X4
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3224
Don't think we are going to change LT's mind on this one
I trully think he was beaten at birth with a Vredestein tyre which has twisted his mind on this winter tyre which is a great shame as most know how great this tyre is.
The stats stack up as you will see from all the positive posts on this tyre.
I actually think he was fed a diet of liquidised ATR's untill he got on solids.
11th Feb 2012 7:22 am
stew 46
Member Since: 01 Dec 2011
Location: cornwall
Posts: 10147
sounds good ,what is the price ??-------------------------------------------------
if you cant hold on dont let go , it ill come in handy for something even if you never use it.
D3 SE 05,
110 s wagon 300 tdi SOLD
h top transit
crew cab transit
transit connect
ausa dumper, muck truck .
peljob 2.5 digger
06 L 200 crew cab
11th Feb 2012 8:43 am
Grouse
Member Since: 08 Feb 2012
Location: on the hill
Posts: 6
Ken, no attack on anybody!
I run a fleet of Range Rovers, used off road and towing off road on a daily basis, as the vehicle was designed for and intended -probably one of the few people who do so.
I am fully aware that tyres have dedicated uses whether it is sand, mud, winter, or road. Whilst it would be delightful to have separate sets of tyres for each purpose and season, it simply isn't practical if you are driving one minute on tarmac, next on mud and the next on ice and snow.
Tyre's therefore have to be a compromise, and I have had absolutely no problems using Vreds as an all year round, winter and off road tyre. It simply would not be practical for me to repeadedly change tyres on several vehicles on a regular basis, together with the outlay on additional tyres and rims and downtime.
From the detail and rubbish written about Vreds above you would think that these tyres should come with a health warning. I am stating the facts as they are through ownership and daily use nothing more and nothing less.
11th Feb 2012 4:45 pm
Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
Hey Grouse
Make Andy a happy chap run GGATs in the summer (if you have one up there ) then Verds the rest of the year
Me I ran ATR's on the FFRR one of the few TDV8 winch equipped as LR said it could not be done Most of my shoots are FFRRs Defenders and G wags
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