DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Mutliple faults lit up the dashboard

bullevard

Member Since: 02 Feb 2019
Location: Monster
Posts: 58

2011 LR4 4.0 V6 Petrol HSE Auto Fuji White

Hi to all,

I have a discovery 3 that won’t turn over.
Fault are a few lost communication with modules. See picture. And temperature gauge goes directly on red. This makes the car won’t start.

No water damage. Changed the transmission ecu already. Changed break switch. And now stripping the car down for possible can bus wire damage.
Any help or thoughts please

L319 - Discovery 3 2005
Vehicle scanned on 29-07-2019 14:55
Using IIDTool BT V3.0 B2644

Body Control

B1C09-73 (2F) Driver's left/right mirror motor circuit - Mechanical failure - actuator is stuck closed
( on 02-08-2020 13:13:40 at 421216 km )
B1C26-3A (2F) Pedal motor feedback circuit - Frequency modulation/pulse width modulation failure - incorrect, has too many pulses
( on 02-08-2020 13:13:40 at 421216 km )
B1C32-13 (2F) Steering column tilt solenoid - General electrical failure - circuit open
( on 02-08-2020 13:13:40 at 421216 km )
B1C34-13 (2F) Steering column telescope solenoid - General electrical failure - circuit open
( on 02-08-2020 13:13:40 at 421216 km )
B1C35-3A (2F) Steering column telescope feedback signal - Frequency modulation/pulse width modulation failure - incorrect, has too many pulses
( on 02-08-2020 13:13:40 at 421216 km )
Instrument Pack

U0100-87 (27) Lost communication with engine control module/powertrain control module 'A' - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
Parking Brake

U0100-87 (FB) Lost communication with engine control module/powertrain control module 'A' - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
( on 02-08-2020 13:13:39 at 193920 km )
Steering Angle

U0122-87 (2F) Lost communication with vehicle dynamics control module - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
( on 02-08-2020 13:13:43 at 193920 km )
Suspension

U0416-86 (A7) Invalid data received from vehicle dynamics control module - Bus signal/message failure - signal is invalid
( on 02-08-2020 13:13:47 at 193920 km )
U0100-87 (2F) Lost communication with engine control module/powertrain control module 'A' - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
( on 02-08-2020 13:13:44 at 193920 km )
Terrain Response

U0100-87 (2F) Lost communication with engine control module/powertrain control module 'A' - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
( on 02-08-2020 13:13:40 at 193920 km )
Traffic Message

B1A56-18 (2F) Antenna circuit - General electrical failure - circuit current below threshold
Transfer Case

U0100-87 (2F) Lost communication with engine control module/powertrain control module 'A' - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
( on 02-08-2020 13:13:43 at 193920 km )
U1A35-4A (2F) VIN data - System internal failure - incorrect component installed
( on 02-08-2020 13:13:43 at 193920 km )
Transmission

U0100-87 (AF) Lost communication with engine control module/powertrain control module 'A' - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
( on 02-08-2020 13:13:41 at 193920 km )

29th Jul 2019 6:48 pm

Phifross

Member Since: 02 Feb 2013
Location: Monrovia
Posts: 31

2005 Discovery 3 4.4 V8 HSE Lux Auto Java Black

Hi,

Sorry to hear that.
Did yiou read my post about this problem ?

For me it was exactly the same problem.
It was the plug behind the dashboard, cluster it was loosed a little bit.

Try to remove the dashboard, it is not hard and there you will a plug on the right side, for me it was this one causing the water gauge going to the red and make it impossible to start the engine.

Please let me know if this is helping you.

Have a good night.

Philippe

8th Aug 2019 7:07 pm

bullevard

Member Since: 02 Feb 2019
Location: Monster
Posts: 58

Hi Philippe,

Thank you for advice. Done that already. Tomorrow a new ecu will be installed. This is the only thing I didn’t changed.
I will let you know tomorrow. Have a nice evening.
Sam

8th Aug 2019 7:11 pm

Phifross

Member Since: 02 Feb 2013
Location: Monrovia
Posts: 31

I'm really really sorry for you.

Myself I have sold my car, after the problem was solved I started to have other problems, the pneumatic suspension and different other things....

It is a shame, because the car is very good mechanically and I really liked it: It was so useful for me here in Liberia, I was able to go everywhere.... but the ar is not at all reliable.... and this is a serious problem for a SUV built to go everywhere....

I still feel bad about it, now I have a Nissan Pathfinder, an old one from 2004, no comparison possible but reliable

Cheer up, I strongly hope you will find the solution !!!

Have a very good night !!!

Philippe

8th Aug 2019 7:18 pm

bullevard

Member Since: 02 Feb 2019
Location: Monster
Posts: 58

Hi Philippe,
Just wanted to update you regarding LR3.
Car went to other specialist. Unfortunately they gave it up after few hours of searching

I will explain what the car does.
After sitting for 2 days locked, you can unlock the vehicle and start is without any problem.

If you turn the car off and wait for 1 or 2 minutes, and try to start again, nothing will turn, no starter motor turning, temperature gauge red, locked led in instrument cluster flashing as it’s locked, and you can change gears without pressing brakes. A lot of communication errors on IID tool.

Close the car and wait a day or two and again.....

Perhaps body control module??

20th Aug 2019 5:51 pm

aja4x4

Member Since: 14 Apr 2019
Location: Westbury
Posts: 2463

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Zambezi Silver

Sounds like you have a canbus module failing they are wired in series so if one fails it brings up other faults from other modules

20th Aug 2019 6:49 pm

bullevard

Member Since: 02 Feb 2019
Location: Monster
Posts: 58

Thank you aja4x4 for your input.

But which one??

20th Aug 2019 6:55 pm

Phifross

Member Since: 02 Feb 2013
Location: Monrovia
Posts: 31

This is exactly the problem, to find which one is faulty.
This canbus way of wiring is like domino, when one is faulty everything will go wrong and this will happen randomly.

You will not have your fault every two or three hours. Sometimes it will be all right for few days and sometimes impossible to start the car in the morning.

I will search the answer I got long ago about how to search which canbus is faulty.

Again I'm very sorry for you, I know how you feel, it is so frustrating.

See you later.

20th Aug 2019 11:40 pm

Phifross

Member Since: 02 Feb 2013
Location: Monrovia
Posts: 31

Dear Bullevard,

Here is the first explanation that was helping me.

Just, if it is a problem with your can bus, the problem will show up randomly, it can't be predicated by what you are doing or when it will happen.

I'm saying this because the way you describe your problem it looks like not really random....

Anyway here the first part it was a reply made to me:

Looks like you are having real issues with your vehicle..
you mentioned some fault codes : B0095 and B00D2 for the airbag. and B1B78 for the hevac. Forget the Hevac for now. When the temp gauge goes to the top and the four flashers are on, sure you can not start the engine. What i would do is, remove the battery, use a multimeter to check the resistance on the highspeed canbus,should read close to 60 ohms, you havent mentioned if you have done this. The colors of the High speed can bus you are after is Yellow with a black stripe and Yellow with a brown stripe. These are pin 6 and 14 on the diagnostic socket. So check what the values on these pins is. This way you can check to see if you have an issue there. For you to understand more about the canbus system i will send you a pdf on examples on how to troubleshoot on canbus system.

21st Aug 2019 5:39 am

Phifross

Member Since: 02 Feb 2013
Location: Monrovia
Posts: 31

Now here are some good explanations about CAN bus:

I agree, you need to read it slowly because it looks like complicated at first....
But take your time when reading it and it will help.

I hope you have a good meter, this will help you.

Here is the post I received:

Ok you can test the can bus voltage thru the Diag connector Land Rover
Discovery 3 OBD II connector, Pin 11 CAN Low, Pin 3 CAN High
Or, Pin 14 CAN Low, Pin 6 CAN High
Yellow/Black CAN Low Yellow/Brown CAN High using a mulit meter + to the pin - to earth the reading will be 2.5v or - 2.5 v depending on which you are reading hi or low
if the voltages are excessive for example can hi is reading 7v then remove the suspect module by disconnecting it and see if the voltage returns to 2.5v if it does then you have found the problem
obviously the voltage will fluctuate when reading

here is more info on d3 can bus from the manual

Two CAN busses are employed on the vehicle:

* Medium speed
* High speed

The medium speed bus connects the following control modules:

* Integrated Head Unit (IHU) or low line head unit
* Heating and ventilation control module
* Fuel burning heater
* Park distance control
* Tyre pressure monitoring control module
* Central junction box

The high speed bus connects the following control modules:

* Steering angle sensor
* Air suspension
* Electric park brake
* Electronic rear differential control module
* Terrain Responseâ„¢
* Restraint control module
* Engine control module
* Transmission control module
* Adaptive front lighting system control module
* Antilock Braking System (ABS) control module
IDS Vehicle Integrity Test
Both the medium and high speed CAN bus are connected to the Instrument cluster and the diagnostic socket at one end. The Medium speed bus terminates at the Central Junction Box (CJB), while the high speed bus terminates at the ABS control module.

Control modules are connected in either a loop , CAN in/ CAN out, or a spur configuration. Should a control module that is looped fail that bus system will fail at that point. Should a spurred control module fail the rest of the bus system will be unaffected by the faulty control module.

If a control module is suspected of non-communication, the Network Integrity test application available on the manufacturer approved diagnostic system can be used to confirm if communication is possible between the control modules on the vehicle and the manufacturer approved diagnostic system (via the J1962 diagnostic connector ). The results from the test can be used to determine if either a single module or multiple modules are failing to communicate.

CAN Terminating Modules

If the Network Integrity test indicates that one or more module on one of the CAN networks (HS or MS) are failing to communicate, there are several checks that can be made. The first step is to identify if both of the CAN terminating modules on each individual CAN Bus are communicating. If both CAN terminating modules for each individual CAN Bus are communicating (identified via the Network Integrity test), then it can be confirmed that the main 'backbone' of the CAN harness is complete. The main 'backbone' of the CAN harness consists of all the modules connected to the CAN harness via a 'loop' configuration and also includes the two terminating modules.

Communication with both CAN terminating modules via the Network Integrity test confirms the physical integrity of the main 'backbone' of the CAN harness (and the harness spur to the J1962 diagnostic connector). This means that there is no requirement to check the resistance of the CAN Network. This is because the standard check for 60 ohms across the CAN High and CAN Low lines will not provide any additional information regarding the physical condition of the CAN harness, beyond what has already been determined from the Network Integrity test.

Non-Communication of a Terminating Module

If a Network Integrity test reveals a terminating module is failing to communicate it can indicate a break in the main 'backbone' of the CAN harness. The first checks should always be to confirm the power and ground supplies to the non-communicating module are correct. Providing these are correct, the resistance between the CAN High and CAN Low lines at the J1962 connector can be checked to determine the integrity of the main 'backbone' of the CAN harness. After disconnecting the battery a reading of 120 ohms would indicate an open circuit in the main 'backbone' of the CAN harness. Alternatively, a reading of 60 ohms would indicate that there is no open circuit fault with the main 'backbone' of the CAN harness.

It is worth noting that even if one of the terminating modules is disconnected from the CAN harness, communications between the modules still connected may still be possible. Therefore communication between the manufacturer approved diagnostic system and the connected modules may also be possible.

Locating CAN Harness Open Circuits

In the case where multiple modules, including a terminating module, are failing to communicate, having first confirmed the power and ground supplies are correct, the approximate location of the open circuit can be identified from analysis of the Network Integrity test results and reference to the relevant CAN network circuit diagrams. For example, if an open circuit existed in a certain position on the CAN harness, any module positioned on the Network between the J1962 connector and the open circuit should return a response during the Network Integrity test. No responses would be returned from any modules past the open circuit fault in the Network.

CAN Harness 'Spur' Type Configuration Circuits

If, after the initial checks (Network Integrity test using the manufacturer approved diagnostic system, and power and ground supplies to the module have been checked and confirmed as correct), a module that is connected to the CAN harness via a 'spur' type configuration is suspected of not communicating, then the physical integrity of the CAN harness 'spur' can be checked.

This is most easily undertaken by individually checking the continuity of the CAN High and CAN Low lines between the non-communicating module connector (with the module disconnected) and the J1962 diagnostic connector.

'Lost Communications' DTCs

As well as the methods described so far in this document, which can be used to determine the location of an open circuit in the CAN harness, 'Lost Communications' DTCs can also be used for this purpose. Lost communication DTCs mean that a module is not receiving CAN information from another module.

For example, if a global DTC read were to be carried out, only DTCs stored in the modules that the manufacturer approved diagnostic system could communicate with would be displayed. If there was an open circuit fault in a certain position on the CAN harness, the modules that could display DTCs would all be prior to the open circuit on the Network, and these modules should display 'Lost Communications' DTCs with all the modules located on the Network past the open circuit fault.

21st Aug 2019 5:47 am

Phifross

Member Since: 02 Feb 2013
Location: Monrovia
Posts: 31

Please let me know if this is ok for you or if you need more explanations.

This can really help, because the problem can looks exactly the same, but the root of the problem can be a different problems.

Like I told you, my problem was the plug behind the instrument cluster, it was loosed and sometimes when the voltage was low, it was responsible for the Water Engine Temperature Gauge to go up in the red and this will not allowed me to start the car.

I hope I explain well.

In short, the symptoms are the same for many, but the root of the problem can be very different.

In the previous explanation, you can test them one by one and avoid to change something when it is working correctly and it will allowed you to find the real problem you have in our car.

Don't hesitate to contact me again !!!!!

Philippe

21st Aug 2019 5:54 am

Phifross

Member Since: 02 Feb 2013
Location: Monrovia
Posts: 31

Here it was my post concerning my first check on the Instrument cluster, I don't think it will help you because you have already checked it....

Anyway we never know and this can be done very easely and it cost nothing.

Here was my post:

After touching the Instrument cluster, it seems that something is happening there....

When I move a little the connection attached to the Instrument cluster, the voltage on the PIN 14 of the OBDII (Yellow and Black wire) is changing...sometimes 1.1 Volts, sometimes 2.3 Volts...
At last, it was ok with 2.3 Volts.
After that I disconnected the battery and I was so surprise to measure 60 Ohms between the PIN 6 and the PIN 14...
I don't think the problem is solved but it appears and disappear... that's a little bit frustrating because I have no idea why or what can cause it ?

What I would like is to check is if my Instrument cluster receive well the 2.5Volts...
Someone knows what is the PIN NÂ° for the yellow and black wire and also for the Yellow and brown wire ?
Because the plug don't let us see where they are connected...

Here it is what was written about the High Speed CAN bus:

Both the medium and high speed CAN bus are connected to the Instrument cluster and the diagnostic socket at one end. The Medium speed bus terminates at the Central Junction Box (CJB), while the high speed bus terminates at the ABS control module.

Control modules are connected in either a loop, CAN in/CAN out, or a spur configuration. Should a control module that is looped fail, that bus system will fail at that point. Should a spurred control module fail the rest of the bus system will be unaffected by the faulty control module.

Now I have some question about that:
What is a spur connection ?
It seems that the Instrument Cluster is not a CAN in/CAN out, am I correct ?
Does it mean that the instrument Cluster is the beginning of the CAN bus connection? Both High and medium?

I have seen some people have changed their Intrument Cluster for nothing, the problem was still there after changing the Cluster...

Now if my cluster receive well the 2.5V it means the problem is somwhere in the CAN Bus... if my Instrument Cluster doesn't receive the 2.5V it means that the problem is between the battery and the instrument Cluster... is it right ?

21st Aug 2019 5:58 am

Phifross

Member Since: 02 Feb 2013
Location: Monrovia
Posts: 31

Now here is the wiring diagram of the Can bus and another documentation on a pdf file

For me the second one (CAN Troubleshooting) was too complicated, but probably you are more smart than me....

[img]https://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/34481/CAN_BUS_wiring.pdf[/img]

[img]https://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/34481/CAN-Troubleshooting-Guide.pdf[/img]

21st Aug 2019 6:08 am

bullevard

Member Since: 02 Feb 2019
Location: Monster
Posts: 58

Philippe,

Thank you so much for your input. These are valuable information. I will start with diagnostic of the can bus readings.
I haven’t done that yet. I only swept a few modules as a ecu and Tcm and instrument cluster.

I will start by testing the voltage of the can bus. If it’s round 7 volt then it’s easy job to disconnect one by one to determine which module is faulty.

The previous owner installed a few extra stuff like cameras, DVD player and screens. So probably he created a short in the central junction box. Is it worth of sending the cjb to UK such as Turner Diagnostics?

21st Aug 2019 7:55 am

bullevard

Member Since: 02 Feb 2019
Location: Monster
Posts: 58

Noticed that the immobiliser led is still flashing even after unlocking the car. When it’s flashing ( ones every 2 second) the engine won’t turn over.

Could it be something with immobiliser?

I don’t have another disco 3 to compare with. But my guess is that immobiliser led won’t flash normally when car is unlocked.

21st Aug 2019 9:07 pm