Member Since: 01 Feb 2011
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3171
To be or not to be (working) - that is the question .......
Hi Colin - It seems I can easily replicate my paddle shift problem.
Lights off - all works OK
Lights on - no paddle shift
Once lights have been turned off, takes about 10 secs to return to normal with shift enabled. No issue with 'stick' select.
Has anyone else reported similar behaviour
All ideas gratefully received.
Steve
Last edited by maplecottage on 29th Sep 2014 7:25 am. Edited 1 time in total
28th Sep 2014 2:12 pm
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Hiya Steve
Well thats certainly some interesting information.
Well done for your detective work on noticing and testing this oddity, which certainly helps.
It would certainly be good to know if anyone else has this.
Of course the lights have nothing to do with the Paddle shift function directly, however especially with your comment about the 10 second delay, this gives me a big clue as to what is going on and naturally then find a possible solution for you.
I believe that the Problem is almost certainly down to a lower than average battery Voltage that is dropping slightly when you apply a load like having your lights on. So you might also get this if you put other high loads on like heated screens, seats and so on which would help confirm my theory.
Let me know
ATB
Colin
28th Sep 2014 2:39 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Colin's thoughts are on similar lines to mine as this does look like a classic voltage drop issue. So supply voltage, resistance, wire gauge and final load will all need to be considered.
A multimeter will be handy, if you have one and know how to drive it.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 01 Feb 2011
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3171
Battery seems good otherwise - it's about a year old. Nominal voltage ' at rest' is currently 12.2v. When running, I read between 13.6 and 14.4.
When I first reported the problem, I was running full headlights but today, only sides. Sides are LED front and rear.
I'll check symptoms with seats and rear screen tomorrow.
Are there any specific contact points you would like me to check voltage at ?
What about live readings from MSV or Nanocom ?
Steve
28th Sep 2014 3:21 pm
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
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Hiya Robbie, thanks for chiming in
Quote:
supply voltage, resistance, wire gauge and final load will all need to be considered
Indeed correct of course, however this particular Circuit is even worse
Because there is no power feed going into the Steering wheel at all, I have parasitically robbed power off the Horn circuit, which of course means that the Horns Relay coil, is actually in series before I tap in.
I then go through a current limiting resistor to ensure that the circuit cannot ever pull enough current to energize the Horn relay which causes more voltage drop and then use an LDO voltage regulator to prevent any possible over voltage, which although being an LDO type regulator does still add losses.
When a paddle is pulled and the Transmitter goes active, we are down to just a couple of hundred millivolts above the minimum voltage required for the Logic circuitry and although slightly below the minimum specified for the actual Transmitter, does seem to work.
Hence in this application, battery Voltage as well as Horn Relay Coil resistance would play a major part, and maybe in the future I might back down a bit on the Current Limiting resistor value
Steve :
Tomorrow I will have a document sent to you detailing the point on the transmitter board to check the voltage along with a simple modification that well might solve your problem.
It is a shame you are not running a Heated wheel, as my transmitter design incorporates a jumper that allows for changing between power being provided by the Horn Circuit or directly via the Power feed supplied for the Heated wheel.
ATB
Colin
28th Sep 2014 3:51 pm
maplecottage
Member Since: 01 Feb 2011
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3171
Hi Colin - more than happy for you to supply me with a heated wheel and clock spring to test this requirement over the next ten years
In return for my brand new one as exists at the moment of course
Steve
28th Sep 2014 4:09 pm
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
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Nice Try Steve.
Just blow the dust of your Multimeter and Soldering iron and prepare to get hands on
28th Sep 2014 5:07 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
BBS SPY wrote:
Hence in this application, battery Voltage as well as Horn Relay Coil resistance would play a major part, and maybe in the future I might back down a bit on the Current Limiting resistor value
Understood and this looks quite a balancing act as it is not uncommon to see 10 to 20% variation in nominal resistance values for automotive relays. The variations in heat within the wheel cluster would add further variables.
It could be as simple as cleaning and reseating the contacts on the loom in the steering wheel.
Interesting stuff.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 01 Feb 2011
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3171
BBS SPY wrote:
Nice Try Steve.
Just blow the dust of your Multimeter and Soldering iron and prepare to get hands on
Dust removed
28th Sep 2014 6:02 pm
Daedalus
Member Since: 21 Sep 2014
Location: London
Posts: 16
Hello Colin
As previously described I have your wheel conversion kit fitted to my new D4 heated wheel with flappy paddles (I've installed all the bits except the ACC, which felt a step too far for me....). Apart from my persistent problem with the downshift paddle (doesn't respond) I cannot figure out how to connect in the heating element (the 2 blue and 2 black wires into black block connector). I have also invested in the LR 018556 clock spring to enable the heating function. The clock spring clearly has extra 2-pin sockets; facing forwards and correspondingly facing sideways, but where/how do you connect up the wheel to the sockets?
I'll get back to you on the paddle shift issue once I've re-mounted the wheel, having removed and re-fitted your wonderful golden boards all round within the wheel. Perhaps a problem it will be no longer
Thanks
29th Sep 2014 10:32 am
JDB
Member Since: 25 Mar 2010
Location: NW Hampshire
Posts: 2486
Member Since: 21 Sep 2014
Location: London
Posts: 16
Thanks JDB. As it happens I bought one of these and have it hooked up to provide the clock spring with power (from the cigarette lighter). I hope that is correct? There is still the problem of getting signal and power to the actually heating coil in the wheel - any ideas?
Many thanks
29th Sep 2014 11:56 am
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Steve, You have an e-mail
Daedalus;
From what you are describing, sadly it sounds like your second hand Heated RRS wheel might possibly be missing a bit.
Heated wheels come complete with a small Black control ECU wedged in on the RHS with a little rubber block. On the lower side there is a socket into which is plugged the 4 pin connector from the Heating element and temperature sensor in the wheels Rim.
On the other, upper side, 5 wires come out that are separated into two wires with a little 2 pin connector that plugs into the Clock spring (Reddish in colour IIRC) and 3 wires on a 3 pin connector that plugs into the switch pack with the Heated switch on it.
29th Sep 2014 3:04 pm
maplecottage
Member Since: 01 Feb 2011
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3171
Just replied with a few Q's
Steve
29th Sep 2014 3:05 pm
Daedalus
Member Since: 21 Sep 2014
Location: London
Posts: 16
Hi Colin
Yes - looking closely at photographs of heated wheels I can see the little blighter that you mean. Is it code TRW61278000B?
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