Member Since: 09 Mar 2013
Location: Here and there
Posts: 590
Re: Screamer fault but shoes apparently not worn just dirty
reggs wrote:
Was really hoping to get this resolved before posting but I'm now completely stuck.
I got a screamer for the first time on D3 2008 this weekend, brakes locked on, unable to free it.
I had to pull the manual release cord in order to get the vehicle home.
Adjusted both shoes as per Bodsy Brake Bible on Saturday, but now the single scream,
seems to alternate rapidly between each side for about 5 seconds and then I get
the same 'Parking Brake fault system inoperative' on the dash.
I'm unable to engage the EPB when stationary (fault on dash) but if you engage it while moving slowly,
it will bring the car to a halt without the scream, although the shoes do sound worn.
So my assumption was that they were.
Car was booked in to an indy this am for an MOT and service anyway, but indy said that the shoes didn't appear to
be worn just gunked up and said they'd need to start stripping everything down to track down the fault
as the 'scream was unusual and couldn't be the shoes!'
I couldn't possibly handle the bill for this and their apparent lack of knowledge over what the fault usually is,
freaked me out, so I just asked them to complete the service and hold the MOT for now.
So....if I do a shoe replacement and proper adjustment at the weekend is this likely to cure the fault?
If not, is replacing the EPB module the only course of action open to me and can that be done
by a fairly competent DIYer? Basically what should I do next guys ??
Any advice appreciated!
From what you have said here Reggs, I can't see that you have unjammed the epb module after pulling the manual release cable?
The first thing I would do is strip the cover off the module and make sure it is not jammed together as this is a pretty easy DIY fix and more than likely the cause of your issue.
Details of how to do so are in Disco Mikeys excellent guide, here:
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic91299.html?highlight=epb+unjam
9th Dec 2013 6:40 pm
WINDSWEPTISLANDER
Member Since: 21 Jul 2011
Location: Way up north
Posts: 523
Good shout Tomtom86,
I had read that but failed to pick up on it.
If you have pulled the emergency release you will need to rematch the cable inside the epb unit, I have not done this but Mikeys guide makes it look easy.
In other words
^^^Wot he said^^^
9th Dec 2013 8:37 pm
reggs
Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Warrington
Posts: 23
Hi both - Read the link and watched the vid. That oscillating screaming 'tune' is exactly the noise she's making. Looks like I'll need to try and unjam the inner workings of the module as well then.
Any tips on slackening off the modules brass bar?
If its a threaded bolt, how do I get some decent purchase on it and won't I damage the outer
casing or thread trying to lever it around?
10th Dec 2013 9:43 am
WINDSWEPTISLANDER
Member Since: 21 Jul 2011
Location: Way up north
Posts: 523
There's a fair bit about it in Disco Mikey's original post, fortunately for me I didn't have to go down that road so I can't speak from experience.
10th Dec 2013 3:31 pm
reggs
Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Warrington
Posts: 23
Thanks for all the advice guys !
I replaced both sets of rear shoes and plan was then to unjam the EPB module.
Clearance to get at it seems to be non existent though.
LR Indy wants £850 to replace it if it can't be unjammed with the diagnostic unit
So.....some more quick questions -
I've got her on a 3 tonne jack and heavy duty axle stands but figure if I've got to be
banging and levering away under there, I better get myself a set of good wheel ramps.
Would that suffice?
Whats the best route to get at that damn module? E.g. Can you get at it through the spare wheel bay, or through either wheel arch? An earlier post says removing the spare wheel will help with
access, but no point me buying ramps if I still won't be able to get at it just lying on my back.
Lastly do I need to free off the handbrake cables inside both of the hubs before trying
to unjam it?
Never faced a job that I can't even start on car and now's not the time for a big outlay
just before Chrimbo
MOT expired Saturday and I'm paddling like crazy!
14th Dec 2013 12:19 pm
WINDSWEPTISLANDER
Member Since: 21 Jul 2011
Location: Way up north
Posts: 523
I feel your pain reggs, I was fortunate to get all my stuff sorted just before the MOT.
So far as I can tell if you get it up on ramps you will not need to adjust the handbrake on the drum, though I used an IID tool to rewind mine to the latching position.
Depending on where you are in the country there may be someone on here able to help, there are a lot who are a lot more knowledgable than me. Have a look at the sponsors page
Wiggs, Flack, Bodsy, Disco Mikey, Woody32 and Geoff contribute often and very helpfully, I believe they will also undertake certain jobs for less than you would expect to pay a main dealer.
I can't offer any more than that I'm afraid.
Hope you get it sorted.
14th Dec 2013 12:54 pm
reggs
Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Warrington
Posts: 23
Cheers WINDSWEPTISLANDER - I'm actually in Warrington, just off M6 J20 Lymm.
14th Dec 2013 1:37 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20836
reggs wrote:
Thanks for all the advice guys !
I replaced both sets of rear shoes and plan was then to unjam the EPB module.
Clearance to get at it seems to be non existent though.
LR Indy wants £850 to replace it if it can't be unjammed with the diagnostic unit
So.....some more quick questions -
I've got her on a 3 tonne jack and heavy duty axle stands but figure if I've got to be
banging and levering away under there, I better get myself a set of good wheel ramps.
Would that suffice?
Whats the best route to get at that damn module? E.g. Can you get at it through the spare wheel bay, or through either wheel arch? An earlier post says removing the spare wheel will help with
access, but no point me buying ramps if I still won't be able to get at it just lying on my back.
Lastly do I need to free off the handbrake cables inside both of the hubs before trying
to unjam it?
Never faced a job that I can't even start on car and now's not the time for a big outlay
just before Chrimbo
MOT expired Saturday and I'm paddling like crazy!
A 3 ton jack, and HD axle stands will suffice. If you can get the back end up on ramps, then you should have enough space underneath...
The easiest way to get at it, is from above the rear diff, facing the back of the car
It is always advisable to unjam the module, wind back fully, then re-adjust the shoes
All is explained in here: EPB Unjam + Relatch
Also, it helps if you fill out your location, in your profile. If anyone is local to you, you may find they will be willing to give you a hand with the job My D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 21 Jul 2011
Location: Way up north
Posts: 523
Flack is just up the M6 in preston
Bodsy is down nearer Birmingham.
Might be worth getting in touch with them. Flack has helped me out recently with plain good advice, not sure what work they may be prepared to undertake though.
14th Dec 2013 2:30 pm
reggs
Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Warrington
Posts: 23
SUC-BLEEDIN-CESS !!!
4.5 hours and more cursing than I've done in years and she's working again.
Massive THANK YOU guys, that saved me close to £1000!
Some learning's for the intrepid...
I went in through the spare wheel void. Didn't need to jack the car but I think
I'd lift it maybe 6 inches both sides and leave the rear wheels on if I had to
do it again.
There's 3 small voids that you can get your arm in to but I basically had to
work one handed for the entire procedure.
I unbolted the EPB mounting plate. Its held down with 4 x 10mm bolts and then
pushed it under the EPB Module. There are some thick black electrical cables
underneath it and a thin black one above it. These have to be unprised, which is
a total . Then there are two 10mm bolts at the top of the module that hold
it to the mounting plate. When refitting note that there are two rubber bungs at
the base of the module that have to be mated up to their holes in order to get
the module back in to place. You can't actually see them but you can feel them
if you can get your arm in far enough. I found these a nightmare to marry back
up and it must have taken me 40 minutes just on that. You may be able to spin
the module and the mounting plate as one piece, but I couldn't. You're basically
trying to spin the module 180 degrees so its facing you and facing the spare
wheel well. I unmounted it, disconnected the cables on the right and pushed the
mounting plate underneath the EPB module. Then I span the module so it was
facing me. Then you can remove the 8 x T20 screws that hold down the lid.
To get the lid off the module, I basically prised it with a screwdriver wedged
between one of its mounting lugs and the lid. Its stuck on with silicone but if
you can raise one corner then all you need to do is run the screwdriver down the
prised edge and split the seal all the way along its length. Unfortunately you
have to do this with one hand whilst peering through one of the small access
holes (as with the whole job!)
With the lid off you can see inside the open module.
You will see the slotted brass bar ceased right up against a square piece of
metal on the left. This brass bar needs to spin but as its wedged against the
metal square, it can't.
Just to check the workings and to also help with winding the mechanism, I disconnected
the red and blue wires from the motor
and then connected it up to a spare 12v battery, but it was ceased solid in both
directions, which you can do by reversing battery polarities. So I followed
various forum posts and kept banging the brass bar at the bottom from my
position with a chisel in my hand. No joy. I then realised that as the bar and module
were now effectively upside down, I needed to bang the bar at the top.
Effectively trying to rotate it clockwise with your right hand, if you were
looking across from the drivers side to the passengers side of the vehicle.
There's virtually no room to swing a hammer in there and you can't hold the
chisel with one hand and swing the hammer with the other one anyway. I nearly
gave up at this point but persevered, manually banging the brass bar in its
grooves with the chisel at its top.
Maybe 20 solid bangs (which is difficult) due to the lack of space and it
rotated ! You can then flick it around using its grooves a couple of times clockwise
looking from the drivers side of the car, with your right hand and a screwdriver
I then reconnected the 12v battery the wrong way around and ceased it back up
again!!! AGHHHH!!!
A couple more bangs and it was free again and this time, connecting the polarity
the other way around the motor span the brass bar rapidly all the way down to the right
and it then re-mated itself with the metal clip mechanism at the bottom. I spun it up and down its
length with the battery CAREFULLY !! a few times to check all was well and then refit
everything which took about an hour. Sealed the lid with some silicone,
readjusted the new shoes and its working again like a charm.
I'm going to get it to the dealers on Tuesday, make sure the shoes are adjusted
properly, MOT it and then probably never use the EPB again.
Once again guys, massive thank you, but this is just one pig of a job.
For a £1000 its worth it though
Last edited by reggs on 15th Dec 2013 5:52 pm. Edited 2 times in total
15th Dec 2013 4:31 pm
tomtom86
Member Since: 09 Mar 2013
Location: Here and there
Posts: 590
Good effort
15th Dec 2013 5:34 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20836
That particular How-To has saved many a forum member the odd thousand pounds
I still remember the guy that brought this car in to my place, armed with that exact How-To printed off, so he could tell me how to fix it My D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 21 Jul 2011
Location: Way up north
Posts: 523
Well done for persevering and getting it done, a challenging job by all accounts.
Worth the 1k though, like you say, that's £250 / hr
If you can do that I'm sure you can adjust the shoes, so unless you're getting it adjusted for free then do that yourself and bung it in for MOT
15th Dec 2013 10:14 pm
reggs
Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Warrington
Posts: 23
Part number for this bit of the rear brake shoe assembly?
I just have a problem with the passenger side rear brake assembly. When I took it apart originally the shoes were very warn so I replaced shoes, clips springs etc.
Unfortunately there is a chrome 'sort of clip' that sits between the shoes at the very top.
I pulled this picture from Bodsy's Bible and have arrowed the clip with two blue arrows.
Its filthy in this pic unfortunately, but it is made of chrome.
This clip basically fell to pieces when I disassembled the brakes and I have no idea what the part number is and whether I can replace it.
It has two arms that are normally trapped by both shoes at the top, but one of the arms just fell off. I managed to get it back in place and trap it on one side only.
This must be some sort of spacer as when I adjust the brakes that knurled adjuster at the bottom is virtually fully wound out. That can only get worse as the brakes wear down.
Anyone have any ideas what this is called\part number for it and if this might be my problem?
I really hope I don't have a stretched cable or something!
Cheers
Last edited by reggs on 16th Dec 2013 4:14 pm. Edited 1 time in total
16th Dec 2013 6:31 am
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20836
It is available as a separate part. Only costs a few £'s. Couldn't tell you what the part number is though.
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. Then there are two 10mm bolts at the top of the module that hold
