Member Since: 13 Apr 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 131
Usually if the system isn’t holding vacuum then it’s one of two things. Either you have a pipe off or not fitted correctly/ a leak ( unlikely in your case) or sufficient vacuum has not been built up in part of the system so when you close the valve to see if it holds the vacuum it doesn’t as the pressure evens out across the system.
What I meant by electric pump was the FBH has a pump you may be able to activate sorry I wasn’t very clear.
If you hold the engine on a higher rpm when parked to fully warm the cooling system until the cooling fan cuts in so the radiator fully warmed up then set the heating to max heat max blow are the cooling pipes to the bulkhead both hot? One should be hot hot the other not as hot but will still feel hot if you get my meaning.
We need to try and establish what part of the system isn’t working correctly.
23rd Nov 2022 8:36 pm
Flatlander
Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575
Do you have access to a pressure tester? Vacuum isn't always a reliable measure of leaktightness, it's possible (as it sounds in your case)for the waterpump shaft seal to let in air when under vacuum as it's designed to work the other way - i.e. under pressure.
If you have a pressure tester, fill the coolant reservoir and pressurise up to ~25psi / 1.7Bar then open the joint to the heater matrix until coolant is pushed out. top up the reservoir, re-pressurise and repeat for the other hose.
Then - top up again, re-pressurise, go back to the first heater hose you 'bled', clamp the hose off and open the connection, this should force coolant through the heater whilst preventing pressure loss from the 'wet' side.
If you have rear heating (i.e. the rear heating controls on the roof pod) then they can be a pain to bleed through and could explain your problems.
I've used the above process on quite a few L319's successfully, occasionally you need to drive quite 'enthusiastically' in a low gear to get a flow of coolant to push past any high-level airlocks.
23rd Nov 2022 9:28 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8156
The two pipes I’ve shown in the photos are the flow and return to the heater matrix, bottom one is stone cold, middle is very slightly warm, top pipe is hot and feed to egr coolers I think, the bottom two don’t even have coolant in them, I’ve had a few air bubbles come out of the joint on the middle but no coolant to speak of.
This D4 is fitted with the factory remote FBH and has extra pipe work to give more heat to the cabin than earlier models, I can’t help thinking this is where the problem is and ‘motolab’ has suggested it but I’ve been nervous at putting 12v to the valve as it is difficult to access and while the valve is closed and the fuel burning heater is not being used surely the coolant to the heater matrix will circulate.
Thanks for everyone’s input greatly appreciated.
2 hours later: FBH is now running at the cost of blowing the pipe off that feeds the FBH, I had not refitted the pipe clip on and lost half my anti freeze, it gets hot but still no heat in the cabin and very little heat in the pipe that feeds the heater matrix
I don’t have a pressure tester, but I do have a spare coolant bottle cap I may be able to make an adapter to do the same job. It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
23rd Nov 2022 11:37 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8156
How does the connection onto the matrix undo? -I don't want to create more problems, I was expecting a rubber hose and spring clips.
Click image to enlarge
It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
24th Nov 2022 5:19 pm
Flatlander
Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575
I don't think it does, I've never removed it TBH and it looks like the retainer is crimped around the pipe - there will be an 'O' ring below the swage that creates the seal.
24th Nov 2022 7:22 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8156
That’s probably why all the dash has to come out to replace the matrix as the pipes go all the way through the bulkhead to the side of the engine, progress It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
24th Nov 2022 8:05 pm
Mastertech
Member Since: 13 Apr 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 131
Does the top of that pipe connection look the same?
24th Nov 2022 9:21 pm
kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6642
This is my five cents and it might not be completely correct. My understanding is that the pipes changed at some point in the D3/D4 lifecycle… at least once.
If you buy Nissens, like I did, to replace the original one it comes looking like this:
Click image to enlarge
And it was a drop-in replacement for the one I had.
Some other people seem to have this:
Click image to enlarge
… note how the pipe is short and the clamps are not AT the core (like on the Nissens) but higher up.
There is supposedly a third version where the pipes are not removable at all but welded all the way to the firewall. This is the version I haven’t seen but have read of.
The original D3 part was JEP500020 until 2009 when it changed to LR017030 until end of D4 production.
24th Nov 2022 10:32 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8156
Mastertec:
If you mean the part of the “nut” you can’t see then yes.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
25th Nov 2022 8:49 am
jenseneverest
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 769
Plus one on using a pressure tester, not a vacuum. It is after all a pressurised system.
This is what i would do:
Engine running, heaters on hot with slow blower speed and about 1 bar of pressure into the system.
Check the heater return pipe for coolant.
If none there then check the feed to heater.
That is similar to the pressure tester i used on my d3 when chasing a crappie water leak.
think it is the purple fitting that fits the coolant tank but i guess a modified rad cap would work just as well. Good luck
25th Nov 2022 11:08 am
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8156
Well another week gone by and still no heater, matrix is clear, flushed both ways with full household pressure, nothing came out, FBH working but no heat going into the matrix but EGR feeds are hot, only misdemeanour is left stepper motor is reading in Iid live values as intermediate when knob is on max. and right reads maximum or intermediate when knob is adjusted to 18 or below, interior temp reads -34 .
Not forgetting everything worked perfect before fitting the new coolant bottle, I’ve even tried putting the old coolant bottle back on but no difference
Thanks Jenseneverest I have tried your method but I’m still out in the cold It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
2nd Dec 2022 2:37 pm
defector
Member Since: 23 Feb 2009
Location: Greater Manchester
Posts: 1436
Sorry I can't remember if in your previous posts if you have tried placing the hosepipe from your tap into both of the rubber heater hoses rather than the matrix.
If one of those are blocked you should easily find out.
Also remember that a D3 eu4 has 3 thermostats.
2nd Dec 2022 10:08 pm
jenseneverest
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 769
This is getting silly now
But am sure your not laughing, probably be pulling your hair out by now.......
Is there any chance you have mixed up some of the pipe work at the tank ? (assuming it is even possible to do) If not there, what about where you drained the system ?
As you say it was fine before changing coolant tank, it still has a cold heater with the old tank so that rules the tank itself out. Assuming you do have a good flow of coolant to and from the heater, is this coolant getting hot at the heater pipes when engine up to temperature?
3rd Dec 2022 1:34 am
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8156
Silly?- more like suicidal, at least I’ve got rid of the low coolant warning but at what price?- one sensor(which was damaged and had to be returned as the tip was broken off), one coolant expansion bottle, 10 litres antifreeze, one coolant system vacuum pump.
The pipes to and from the coolant expansion tank cannot get mixed up, they will only fit one way.
On the top left side of the engine there are three heater pipes, top one to the EGRs which gets very hot, middle feed which gets warm half way up to where the hose connector is to the matrix, the bottom pipe is cold.
I have put the garden hose into both hoses(one at a time) to the matrix and another length of garden hose into the opposite pipe for a return and both have flowed at full pressure and I get a very good domestic pressure.
I have tried the vacuum pump 3 times, each time draining all coolant out, all big hoses have been sucked flat before refilling with coolant, the engine has been taken up to working temperature with a road test at 3000rpm(low range) after each attempt sometimes 20 miles but still no heat.
Thanks for your interest and support.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
3rd Dec 2022 8:31 am
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10506
1 maybe one day after many days of driving it might just start working (if your lucky)
2. Need to ensure no air at the top of the system.
That means
Top front of engine. Small pipe
Matrix pipes
Have you opened the EGR bleed screw on cross over pipe? (I know it’s hot)
At the bottom thermostat octopus, have any pipes been mixed up ?
It’s odd you say the EGR is hot but matrix cold. Could they be swapped ?
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
.
but at what price?- one sensor(which was damaged and had to be returned as the tip was broken off), one coolant expansion bottle, 10 litres antifreeze, one coolant system vacuum pump.
