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captain_sugar
Member Since: 05 Sep 2006
Location: Hradec Kralove
Posts: 1095
  
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Hi Hippo3
Welcome and congratulations with your first post!
The Czech republic is underrepresented on this forum...
What did you pay for the webasto-kit?
Did you install it yourself? How much time/any problems?
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 29th Nov 2007 10:30 am |
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JakobVels
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 223
  
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| Re: Webasto Original Products |
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hippo3 wrote:why You did not use original Webasto products?
I was told by both my dealer who played a lot around with getting the FBH to run as preheater, and by Webasto that telestart and thermocall did not work with the unit fitted in the D3. Reason stated is that Landrover will not release the codes for the units so they become remote controllable - true or false, i dont know.
I would have gotten the telestart imidiately after i got the car if it had worked, or with resonable confidence could have been broght to work.
Cheers
Jakob
BTW i have the dealer fitted timer unit with fan control (cabin heat  )
EDIT: But if you get it to work please share as i have not yet gotten around to mod with a GSM receiver.
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| 29th Nov 2007 11:07 am |
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stapldm
Member Since: 11 Sep 2006
Location: Swine Town
Posts: 2330
 
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Hippo3, If I could have confirmed that the latest Webasto remotes (including the T91) worked with the D3, that would have been my choice in the first place.
I started out 'knowing' that the D3 didn't have a viable parking heater.
Thanks to posts by Arsi & JakobVels, I then discovered this wasn't true and started getting inquisitive.
Thanks to some tutoring by 10forcash, I discovered how the brains of a D3 works (and why the original D3 timer offering failed to work and was deleted).
In direct answer to your question - I was unable to get any technical information out of Webasto about their products or suitability, so I was forced to go down other routes.
Thanks to the efforts of many German forum members I discovered how the heater could be driven, and that some heaters only responded to the new w-bus control signal.
At the time the only device I could confirm produced w-bus was the 1533 timer, so standing on the shoulders of those above I produced a how-to on how to install, and optionally modify this to use remote control.
Wiggs then took it further and published a great how-to on bringing the timer unit under GSM control.
Today we find out from you that the T91 does actually produce w-bus (any pin-out diagrams describing the wiring would be appreciated!), and that perhaps the latest telestart GSM modules would work too.
Imagine what we'll know about the D3 tomorrow, and what together we can do with it next 
Welcome to the site Dr. Ian Malcolm:
"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
Transgenic tomato anyone?
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| 29th Nov 2007 2:11 pm |
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MrAnders
Member Since: 19 Aug 2007
Location: Oslo
Posts: 52
 
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I`m impressed with yours skills! I only bought it. Every morning I run out in the yard, open the door and press the Start button. The reward is a warm car 20 minutes after. The fan control is rather basic. Its medium speed all directions as soon as I press Start, waste of amp since it blows cold air for the first minutes off course but it works. I was told I could set fan speed and direction manually but haven`t figured it out. The timer is set to 30 min max and nothing close to slow starter even when several degrees below. I think the Webasto and fan could run for 60 min and still be able to start.
I will install a GSM receiver! One question, why did you connect a wire to the Webasto, I thought you just simulated a press of the start button with this setup. -05 TDV6 HSE dc5r
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| 29th Nov 2007 2:48 pm |
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hippo3
Member Since: 29 Nov 2007
Location: Stribrnice
Posts: 16
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captain_sugar wrote:Hi Hippo3
Welcome and congratulations with your first post!
The Czech republic is underrepresented on this forum...
What did you pay for the webasto-kit?
Did you install it yourself? How much time/any problems?
Dear Captain,
Thanx for nice greeting. Well, You know I am Greenhorn in this forum and still beginner in cognition of my quite young D3 lady, but pure lover- unthusiast. I appreciate I can learn so many helpful information on this site.
Regarding the T91 I did not bought it yet. The price on the German eBay is approx. 220 EUR as Buy it Now, so You can get it even cheaper, I think so.
brgds hippo3 D3nosaur
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| 29th Nov 2007 9:19 pm |
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hippo3
Member Since: 29 Nov 2007
Location: Stribrnice
Posts: 16
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stapldm wrote:Hippo3, If I could have confirmed that the latest Webasto remotes (including the T91) worked with the D3, that would have been my choice in the first place.
I started out 'knowing' that the D3 didn't have a viable parking heater.
Thanks to posts by Arsi & JakobVels, I then discovered this wasn't true and started getting inquisitive.
Thanks to some tutoring by 10forcash, I discovered how the brains of a D3 works (and why the original D3 timer offering failed to work and was deleted).
In direct answer to your question - I was unable to get any technical information out of Webasto about their products or suitability, so I was forced to go down other routes.
Thanks to the efforts of many German forum members I discovered how the heater could be driven, and that some heaters only responded to the new w-bus control signal.
At the time the only device I could confirm produced w-bus was the 1533 timer, so standing on the shoulders of those above I produced a how-to on how to install, and optionally modify this to use remote control.
Wiggs then took it further and published a great how-to on bringing the timer unit under GSM control.
Today we find out from you that the T91 does actually produce w-bus (any pin-out diagrams describing the wiring would be appreciated!), and that perhaps the latest telestart GSM modules would work too.
Imagine what we'll know about the D3 tomorrow, and what together we can do with it next
Welcome to the site
Thanx to You also.
I have to say again You did a great job.
I spoke to various people without knowing Your development in this issue...anyway, I have hot line with Webasto dealer as well as Land Rover one here in Czech.
The Guy from Webasto confirms that T91 supports W-bus output as well as Analogue one from standard unit. They have even tested system on several D3s, but due to permanent conflicts with Vehicle systems and no possibility to manage full functionality and to involve interior heating via D3 CAN bus or by any other way, they do not consider the system as reliable. Major problem ( as Webasto technician said) was number of various error signal and reports accumulated in the vehicle ECU, what could cause unexpected car behaviour. As per his information, the Land Rover has no interest to fix this snag. On other hand the Land Rover dealers here in our country offer me solution with ThermoCall TC2 together with Oval 1533 what will enable following function:
1. Remotely start-up Webasto in D3 to pre-heat the engine. No fans will be involved and pre-heating can be switched off either manually or in pre-adjusted time period.
2. Ones You come to the car and FBH is still working, You can open car ( wake up CAN bus) without interruption the pre-heating process...You can even sit into the interior, switch the key to the ignition and turn to position needed for switching fans and interior heating. Of course the battery will cry, but does not matter it should work without conflicts with Disco systems.
Webasto dealer offers me funcionality with T91 and its w-bus output. As he says, I can use it when my car sleeps only (either locked or un-locked)...it is o.k. to make her waking-up cold, frozen engine easier and to feel myself better that I save powerplant against drastic cold starts up. Webasto guy says that I am able to do it only with sleeping car and he recomend me to switch off FBH prior wake-up the car...any way it is more then enough for my purposes.
I do not know whether Land Rover people do some changes in the vehicle firmware, but most probably they do not.
I will contact Webasto guy to confirm w-bus output from T91, but I saw manual already, where the Thermo Top V webasto system is listed as supported device without exceptions. I will try to get some wiring manual. But nobody knows, You have much more information and experience, so let us test it first. I have to negotiate it with dealer since the car is under warranty.
brgds
hippo3 D3nosaur
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| 29th Nov 2007 10:04 pm |
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stapldm
Member Since: 11 Sep 2006
Location: Swine Town
Posts: 2330
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MrAnders wrote: One question, why did you connect a wire to the Webasto, I thought you just simulated a press of the start button with this setup.
The wire is between the timer and the heater, and carries the signal to tell the heater to start up or to shut down. Dr. Ian Malcolm:
"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
Transgenic tomato anyone?
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| 29th Nov 2007 10:10 pm |
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wiggs
Member Since: 03 Sep 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 14372
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MrAnders wrote:
I`m impressed with yours skills! I only bought it. Every morning I run out in the yard, open the door and press the Start button. The reward is a warm car 20 minutes after. The fan control is rather basic. Its medium speed all directions as soon as I press Start, waste of amp since it blows cold air for the first minutes off course but it works. I was told I could set fan speed and direction manually but haven`t figured it out. The timer is set to 30 min max and nothing close to slow starter even when several degrees below. I think the Webasto and fan could run for 60 min and still be able to start.
I will install a GSM receiver! One question, why did you connect a wire to the Webasto, I thought you just simulated a press of the start button with this setup.
Have you got the complete kit ...as in wiring loom etc ?
The installation i have done does not include the wiring loom .
I just got the oval timer , i then took the W bus signal out of the timer and connected it to pin 2 on the webasto heater .
To get the GSM unit ( or a remote control unit )to work you connect the 2 wires from the instant heat button .If you have the wiring loom already fitted you will not have to connect any more wires to the webasto heater . G4 Gone ...but not forgotten
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| 29th Nov 2007 10:19 pm |
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wiggs
Member Since: 03 Sep 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 14372
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hippo3 wrote:captain_sugar wrote:Hi Hippo3
Welcome and congratulations with your first post!
The Czech republic is underrepresented on this forum...
What did you pay for the webasto-kit?
Did you install it yourself? How much time/any problems?
Dear Captain,
Thanx for nice greeting. Well, You know I am Greenhorn in this forum and still beginner in cognition of my quite young D3 lady, but pure lover- unthusiast. I appreciate I can learn so many helpful information on this site.
Regarding the T91 I did not bought it yet. The price on the German eBay is approx. 220 EUR as Buy it Now, so You can get it even cheaper, I think so.
brgds hippo3
Am i missing something here or are we no further ahead with the t91 !!!
I was under the inpression from Hippo3's original post that this deffinatly worked ...
After reading the last few posts it apears not .  ( as he has not actually done it )
I have spent many hours on the internet , and many phone calls and iv always been under the impression ( as well as stapldm ) that this would not work !!!
I have gone down the route of a GSM remote because
1 , i did not want to carry an extra remote .
2 , the cost ...£125 for GSM unit and £40 for the timer ( plus say an extra £10 for box and connectors )
3 , i always have my mobile with me
4 , it deffinatly works
5 , its pretty dam cool G4 Gone ...but not forgotten
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| 29th Nov 2007 10:31 pm |
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stapldm
Member Since: 11 Sep 2006
Location: Swine Town
Posts: 2330
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Thanks for all that good info hippo3, appreciate it.
Just one point, regarding item 2 - if the heater is running when you unlock the car, the waking up of the canbus triggers a shutdown of the heater. It'll sound like it's still running, but that's just the fans continuing to run for 60-90 seconds to purge all fuel from the combustion chamber. I try not to interupt the heater like this as starting the engine whilst the heater is shutting down means that the heater wont start up again this trip, even if it's <5C outside and it is required. This is behaviour I've only noted the last few days, and I've not had the chance to work out how long you should wait before attempting to restart the heater.
Of course maybe you're running different software in your D3 than I am  Dr. Ian Malcolm:
"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
Transgenic tomato anyone?
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| 29th Nov 2007 10:40 pm |
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hippo3
Member Since: 29 Nov 2007
Location: Stribrnice
Posts: 16
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Hi again,
as far as I understand from Webasto engineer as well as further Webasto users, the sound we can here after engine shutdown is water pump providing the coolant chills the webasto heater. Consumption chamber is too hot to just interrupt fuel delivery, therefore this cooling procedure is necessary. Also I understand that drivers behaviour has no influent to this fact, i.e. if You start up engine during cooling FBH it is o.k. and Webasto will either continue cooling only process ( if the engine coolant temperature is above 75°C AND/OR outside temperature is above 5°C) or new heating cycle will be started (if the coolant temperature is below 75°C AND outside temperature is below 5°C). Considering these terms it is normal that some times we can hear pump sound still after engine shutdown, because when outside temperature is too low and coolant is below 75°C, the FBH works even during Your driving to keep the engine in optimal conditions and enabling interior heating without limitations.
Dealer in Czech has done and tested several instalations with ThermoCall, but for some reasons I do not like
"many buttons press" control. Even to send short SMS takes some time and needs at least 5 steps on my cellphone in compare with ONE TOUCH control, offered by Telestart T91 or T100 ( with continual feedback).
Also Webasto guy says he has Telestart tested on D3 already, but he draws user´s attention to avoid conflict with vehicle system...therefore he recommends to switch on FBH remotely when the car is "sleeping" only. Certainly we have to test is first. As soon as I have enough time to go there, I will do so...because Winter is coming.
brgds
hippo3 D3nosaur
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| 30th Nov 2007 8:32 am |
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captain_sugar
Member Since: 05 Sep 2006
Location: Hradec Kralove
Posts: 1095
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I was tempted by the webasto heater as well and had a hot line with them for a short period as well, well hot as can be in czech republic because the guy promised to call me back and he never did...
After all I decided not to waste time and money on it. On my trip from work to home, merely 2 km, the car is able to get heated enough and when driving into my garage, hot air is being blown from the vents already.
Realy, I can stand a few minutes in winter cold.
Maybe if you have a newborn baby it is an advantage to get from a warm home straight into a warm car.
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| 30th Nov 2007 11:10 am |
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captain_sugar
Member Since: 05 Sep 2006
Location: Hradec Kralove
Posts: 1095
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hippo3 wrote:Dear Captain,
Thanx for nice greeting.......<SNIP>
Hi Hippo
Have lots of fun on this site! it sure is the best source of information with many LR employees writing here (at least I believe they are since they seem to have inside information).
The number 1 trick you can learn here is how to switch of the seat belt alarm.. A must.
By the way, do you have contacts to a decent 4x4 club here? Not the type of club with "magor" members I mean...
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| 30th Nov 2007 11:19 am |
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hippo3
Member Since: 29 Nov 2007
Location: Stribrnice
Posts: 16
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Quote Removed
Dear Cpt.
thank You for the tip and information. I revert to FBH shortly...You are right, there are not too many reasons why to invest money and time to remote or independent control of FBH. Certainly not because of interior heating. Major reason why I am thinking about this option is to minimize engine wear caused by cold starts up. I have no garage, therefore I have to wake up the engine at outside temperature...But maybe much easier solution of this problem is to install 230V AC electric pre-heater to the engine cooling system ( as it is cheaper and it does not effect to the car battery condition, like using FBH without running engine)...the system warms up engine in 15 minutes, power input is more and less 2 kWatts, the price for easy install system is apprx. 200 EUR (e.g.. Normans manufacturer in Brno). Disadvantage is impossibility to use the system anywhere You want, because You need 230 power outlet close to Your car ( unfortunately it does not work from lamppost  ).
I am agree with You, the support either from Webasto or LR dealers is very weak in our country.
Regarding clubs of four-wheeler's enthusiasts in Czech I saw many sites on the Net, but have no experience with them, I am sorry. 
Yes, I am agree this site is very helpful and I appreciate a lot of technical information, GREAT experience of "old members", pure love and cherish the conservative values with still objective critique of always existing imperfections...so I am proud I can attend this big Disco3 festival. Whoopee D3nosaur
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| 1st Dec 2007 4:28 pm |
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wiggs
Member Since: 03 Sep 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 14372
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Just a little update ,as today was the first morning i have had to try it with a nice frost.
Started my car via the phone
There was frost on the windscreen , lights and bonnet.
After about 10 mins the ice / frost was starting to melt on the bonnet .
After 20 mins i went out to the car , all ice on the bonnet gone , ice from headlights gone ,and two thirds of the windscreen had cleared ( the divers side last bit still had small amount on it)
Got in and put heated screen on ..took about 30 seconds to remove what was left.
Car temp was just below half way ...
When you first start the car the temp guage drops as the hot water is then circulated more with the water pump .
But still warm air comming out ..and a engine that is nice and warm ..so no damage from cold hard starting ...
All in all a very worth while mod.Can't wait till it starts snowing ...watching my neighbours scraping the snow off there cars  G4 Gone ...but not forgotten
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| 15th Dec 2007 11:52 am |
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