Member Since: 16 Jul 2006
Location: South Gippsland
Posts: 511
camper trailer v pop-top
I have been looking at camper trailers for some time - generally looking for an "off-road" model. I notice that many people here have various trailers, but I have not been able to search out any specific threads on them.
I spent yesterday at the caravan and camping show in Melbourne and have had my suspicions confirmed – a decent off road camper is about the same price as a pop-top caravan (circa $30k), however does not always have the same features (i.e. oven, fridge, room, etc).
I am not looking to tow anything into the high country (have tents for those trips), but do expect to take the trailer off the asphalt and to areas without power, water, etc, so need to be pretty well self contained. Pop-tops seem to be better equipped and easier to set up a pack up???
I am really just looking for some ideas on who has what, and opinions on the pros and cons of each.
I am pretty close to purchasing a Goldstream RV off-road camper trailer (read pop-top). Anyone have one of these? Any suggested “must have†options (i.e. battery packs, solar power, etc)?
Thanks in advance for any comments.Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
(Epicurus BC 341-270)
8th Oct 2006 4:03 am
catweasel
Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4805
I have a camper trailer while some of my brothers have Jayco Outback pop tops. they bought second hand for a fraction of the price bought new. I might suggest (whatever type) if you do not intend any rough offroading and only occasional use, then this might be a better way to go. if youre like me and like things new, then might I suggest you buy a lower spec with basic ammenities and set up other items yourself as it's more flexible re. options of manufacturer and expense.
must haves in my opinion are a good set (double your power requirements) of AGM type deep cycle batteries. about 200A/H. either a solar panel with a photovoltaic controller (solar cells can fry your batteries)or a generator, preferably both.
a decent size water tank, 100 + liters.
a decent size draw bar for gas bottles, drinking water and extra fuel.
make sure (on a pop top) that the fridge can be run off of gas aswell as 240/12v.
independant suspension with shocks if you like the rough stuff. better onroad too
definitely a Treg coupling (more articulation and tough as nails)
well the pros and cons as I see them is:
a poptop is quicker to set up than a camper in most situations
a poptop is probably better (depending on your needs) in miserable weather ie. setting up in the rain.
a poptop is more affected by wind when towing and is harder to see around when towing/reversing and creates more drag
a poptop has its limitations off road and can limit as to where you go ( if you get more adveturous in the future)
my camper when fully set up is much larger than a poptop
a poptop is off the floor, so if nature bothers you (lizards, snakes etc) then this might be a better choice.
I have never towed a poptop, but my brother has towed mine and the above comments are from campfire discussions.
if you can, go to a caravan place and ask to see if you can compare how they tow.
heres a pic of my camper and my brothers poptop. not all that flash but gives you an idea.
I think it sounds like a poptop is what you're really after, unless you got some more details as to your requirments. the T-van might also be something to look at.
do you have kids ?
one other advantage I just remembered is that when closed I still have access to everything in my camper that you don't in a poptop. the other week we went away and stopped for some tea and eats on the way home and I could access my fridge, cutlery, cups, plates cooktop etc.
8th Oct 2006 9:56 am
Tony
Member Since: 20 Apr 2006
Location: Adelaide Hills
Posts: 183
I've got a Jayco 'Finch' off-road camper van - very clever design but the construction is a bit sad.
Timber seat frames needed reinforcing and a host of other little problems had to be re-thought. The 'off-road' bit consists of a little more ground clearance and a much heavier tow frame, so it is not really suitable for rough work - having said that, we have taken it across the Gibb River Road and returned along the Tanami, and despite some fast travelling, it needed only a little bit of work when we got home.
I agree with Catweasel re power supply and the Treg coupling. We use a generator to recharge the batteries - I've replaced a couple of the interior lamps with LEDs in the interest of much lower power consumption.
It tows well at (or a bit above )speed limits and with my V6 petrol D3, adds about 15 percent to the fuel consumption at worst.
I'd buy another one - (maybe not the same brand though) - I'm too old and lazy to battle a heap of canvas! But remember, nothing used off-road is really dust-proof, so be prepared to really get the taste of the outback
I got home last night after 10 days zig-zagging around the edge of the Tanami Desert and the West Macdonnell Ranges in the D3. It behaved faultlessly and I'll post a few comments and pictures in the next few days.Ex Defender 110 200Tdi owner.
8th Oct 2006 11:40 pm
catweasel
Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4805
Tony wrote:
But remember, nothing used off-road is really dust-proof
mine keeps out the dust enroute, just has a bit of trouble keeping out natures pets.
Tony, where did you purchase your leds as I'm coming to Adelaide this week and choice is limited (if any) in Whyalla.
9th Oct 2006 7:55 am
Tony
Member Since: 20 Apr 2006
Location: Adelaide Hills
Posts: 183
Hi Cat,
I made up a couple of units using 20 leds in each, based on the kits from Oatley Electronics (http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/kits/k202.html) and mounted them in the Jayco light housings. They could be brighter and some more recent designs would be more suitable while still remaining below 500mA consumption.
It's a hard to find useful ready-made units and I don't know of anywhere in Adelaide to try. I do some work at a wildlife research station on Kangaroo Island - they have only 12v. solar power and we have tried many different commercial LED units, but most are too dim for general lighting. I'm currently playing with 1W. Leds but they need heatsinking and the light is very directional. Still early days in the development of LEDs I'm afraid, so the main lights in the van are still incandescent and the leds are just reading lights.Ex Defender 110 200Tdi owner.
9th Oct 2006 10:24 am
catweasel
Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4805
Tony, have sent you a PM
9th Oct 2006 12:12 pm
ontheridge
Member Since: 12 Oct 2005
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 59
We bought a 2006 Jayco Outback 'Dove' in May, this was after many months doing the same comparisons, it came down to the fact value for money a camper was ready to go, drive away, just need personal gear and food. To prove this, we picked up the Jayco on a Friday afternoon and headed off on a 2 week 3000km trip on Sunday morning. There are many small improvement in the 2006 range, the main one being alloy seat frame construction. We also considered the Goldstream, but as this is likley to be the first of our caravans for the future i didn't believe the extra expense was justified.
I agree with Catweasal in all areas, as for power, i have a Honda EU20i generator, wow, this is a little beauty, so lite and quiet, but at this stage haven't had to use it much, i bought it because Honda had a cash back bonus and a guy in Sydney was flogging them cheap, also good back-up when the power goes out this summer.
As for our camper, it sets up easy, travels great, fuel economy is about 12.3l/100 (TDV6) and as everything we need. Good luck making a decision.D4 TDV6 MY13' - 2 weeks away!
RRS S/C MY10' - muchly loved and just gone
D3 TDV6 SE MY06' - loved and gone
9th Oct 2006 12:45 pm
TDMP
Member Since: 16 Jul 2006
Location: South Gippsland
Posts: 511
thanks fo the comments guys.
I was thinking along the same lines as CW - get a base spec and then customise. But from what I could tell, the Goldtream frame is a bit more solid than the Jayco.
CW - yes, I do have kids, which is why I liked the extra room in a trailer(but dislike the extra work - I really need my hols!). How long does it take you to set up the trailer? Do you have issues with water when packing up? I have not really had a close look at solar - this is my first camping "ugrade" for 5-6 years, and last time solar was not really an option. I think I will look at it closely.
Have you thought about charging the van/trailer battery from the D3 whilst you drive?
TONY - what was (roughly) the weight of your van (loaded) when you took it on the Gibb River Road? Did your mods add much weight?
OTR - I see you have bed end flys. I have read that packing up pop-tops trailers when wet is a problem as beding also gets wet. Do they flys prevent this?
Sorry to bother - its a big move from tent to trailer - and a lot of $$ to spend. I want to make sure I get it right first time!
(I also figure these posts should be in off-topic, but as we are talking about aussie products for use in aussie conditions, I thought here was better???)
BTW - much to my disgust, I chose the vehicle model (D3 of course)and SWMBO chose colour (Rimni Red!!). Anyone got some pics of a Rimni Red with a black bull bar? I would like to see how it looks with all that black!Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
(Epicurus BC 341-270)
9th Oct 2006 1:29 pm
catweasel
Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4805
ontheridge I have an EU10i which is rated at 1000w. yours is rated at 2000w but that is its peak output. it's true output is 1600w continuous which is 6.7amps @ 240v so be carefull of your loading. the beauty of these generators is that they have a full sinewave inverter which produces commercial quality power which can run sensitive electronic equipment such as laptops and medical equipment (a bonus for some of us)
do you have a battery setup in your poptop ?
9th Oct 2006 1:33 pm
catweasel
Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4805
firstly, it's no bother and yes it's an awful lot of cash. your post in this section is ok as far as I can.
to set up on the side of the road for an overnight stop is 5-15 minutes depending wether I stick up the awning or not, undo 8 clips a flick and its set. to set up as per the photo with kids room adds an extra 10-15min and the shower room a couple of minutes. when I stop and don't yabber and get into it it takes somewhere between 30-45 mins om my own and I'm done. when I first put it all up it took about 3 hours but every time I set up gets quicker and you know what you need and don't. water hasn't been an issue to date, I just put a tarp over the bed and fold it up, but like a tent you must open it up and let it dry. I've left it for up to 2 weeks with no issues re. fungus and mould. the batteries get charged via the solar panel as I drive and since the Commodore wasn't a permanent solution I haven't bothered but will set it up so the D3 runs the fridge en route and the solar will stay as is.
solar is a doddle but not cheap and it always pays to get bigger than you need and some panels will now work in up to (I believe) 60% shade. if you like I could take pics of the set up and what is used but my panel alone is over $1700 without the controller,wiring etc and on a sunny day charges up very quickly. the generator is used as a supplementary boost (kids and overcast days) and the wifes hairdryer
wife chose the camper (with my approval ) while I chose the vehicle
my main reason for the camper is its flexibility and I wanted something that would go wherever the D3 would and some places don't allow caravans but will allow trailers and also canvas wont break due to vibration etc and the chairs and tables are easily repaired/replaced at a low cost. it took 2 years to decide on a camper and I don't regret the wait and am very happy, but my wants and needs sound different to yours.
one advantage of buying a base spec van is if you sell you get to keep all your goodies and transfer them to your new one.
decisions,decisions
9th Oct 2006 2:19 pm
TDMP
Member Since: 16 Jul 2006
Location: South Gippsland
Posts: 511
catweasel wrote:
the batteries get charged via the solar panel as I drive
does the panel sit on top of the trailer?
catweasel wrote:
if you like I could take pics of the set up and what is used
that would be good, thanks
catweasel wrote:
...but my wants and needs sound different to yours.
Not quite...I have a wife too
I think I will look closely at solar. As you may recall my D3 does not turn up until Feb 07 so I have a bit if time to investigate (and if anyone decided to have a D3 weekend over summer (in the south eastern states) I would come along to have a closer look at these things )Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
(Epicurus BC 341-270)
10th Oct 2006 11:42 am
ontheridge
Member Since: 12 Oct 2005
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 59
TDMP - the bed end flys are essential, for many reasons, firstly they keep all moisture off the bed ends, heavy rain, dew etc etc. Second, they keep the cold or heat off the bed ends. Third, they keep the canvas brand new, no bird, koala or possum , no tree sap etc etc. Best hint with 'bed end flys' is to always carry a old beach towel, use it to dry the fly if wet/moist or use to clean the flys when packing up after a extended stay, dry flys are much easier to roll up when clean and dry on a cold morning in the Vic. High Country. Another option is to leave the flys out whilst packing up the bed ends, once all is ready to wind down the roof, simply loosen the ropes, everything stays dry.
As for the differences between Goldstream and Jayco, I have a few issues with the build quality in minor area, these mainly relate to unseal timber within the camper and under the bed end, simple to fix though. I really like the Goldstream campers but not the cost (not for our first caravan), the Jayco (brand new) was $19100 on the road, drive away with everything you see in the photos, I considered this great value.
I have added a simple 12V 100ah SLA battery, the camper comes with battery box, connections and full 12V system.
CW - yes the 2000w is peak, but peak for 30mins + you can parallel 2 EU20i for 3.2KVA continuous. As above, i have a 100ah battery to run the lights and Engel fridge for the beer & wine. I am yet to do some tests to see if the D3 is charging the battery when connected, one thing for sure, the fridge in the van will kill the D3 battery if you leave it connected over-night, whoops!! Need to add some protection here and do some more testing for the best setup, helps being a sparky by trade, problem is finding the time to play in the van.
TDMP - Happy to help!D4 TDV6 MY13' - 2 weeks away!
RRS S/C MY10' - muchly loved and just gone
D3 TDV6 SE MY06' - loved and gone
10th Oct 2006 12:29 pm
catweasel
Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4805
TDMP wrote:
does the panel sit on top of the trailer?
indeed it does. here's a quick snap I took, will take some more later as I'm off to the big smoke for a few days.
10th Oct 2006 5:20 pm
TDMP
Member Since: 16 Jul 2006
Location: South Gippsland
Posts: 511
thanks CW
(I see you really are nocturnal )
catweasel wrote:
as I'm off to the big smoke for a few days.
Sydney or Melbourne? Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
(Epicurus BC 341-270)
10th Oct 2006 11:00 pm
catweasel
Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4805
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
)speed limits and with my V6 petrol D3, adds about 15 percent to the fuel consumption at worst.
but every time I set up gets quicker and you know what you need and don't. water hasn't been an issue to date, I just put a tarp over the bed and fold it up, but like a tent you must open it up and let it dry. I've left it for up to 2 weeks with no issues re. fungus and mould. the batteries get charged via the solar panel as I drive and since the Commodore wasn't a permanent solution I haven't bothered but will set it up so the D3 runs the fridge en route and the solar will stay as is.
) while I chose the vehicle 
and also canvas wont break due to vibration etc and the chairs and tables are easily repaired/replaced at a low cost. it took 2 years to decide on a camper and I don't regret the wait and am very happy, but my wants and needs sound different to yours.
so I have a bit if time to investigate (and if anyone decided to have a D3 weekend over summer (in the south eastern states) I would come along to have a closer look at these things 
)
, no tree sap etc etc. Best hint with 'bed end flys' is to always carry a old beach towel, use it to dry the fly if wet/moist or use to clean the flys when packing up after a extended stay, dry flys are much easier to roll up when clean and dry on a cold morning in the Vic. High Country. Another option is to leave the flys out whilst packing up the bed ends, once all is ready to wind down the roof, simply loosen the ropes, everything stays dry.
)
