Member Since: 20 Feb 2010
Location: Porto (was Kent)
Posts: 4123
Obviously the affected children would have to eat something different from the others (guess the school cannot afford to pay for everybody also because parents would complain if money is used for that vs something of benefit for all the childrens) so I am not sure that leaving them with others only to be given a different (somehow "cheaper") food would be good for them. Maybe that would be more traumatic
It might be called lunch isolation but as a fact it is just a separate group still under teacher supervision eating something different. Does not really sound like a punishment to me just and additional hassle for the school as they need a separate class more teachers etc and again all because of irresponsible parents
Given the context I do not see this need for "fight for children protection" and related reactions
Also how do you define "ultras" vs "many normal people" and who is the official spoke person for the latter? Sounds like classifing/judging people based on their opinions and that is certainly more worrying than "lunch isolation"
Guess everybody here is expressing his/her own opinion and even "normal people" can post directlyIt takes all sorts (to make a world).
D3 HSE LHD gone but not forgotten
Last edited by Riccardo on 1st Aug 2016 11:40 am. Edited 2 times in total
1st Aug 2016 9:12 am
comedyharvey
Member Since: 04 Jul 2010
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 1727
DG wrote:
Because contrary to the beliefs of the 'ultras' here, detention is seen as a punishment, a deprivation, a denial and as the child is not responsible for the action which has led to it then to many normal people that is worth highlighting
And contrary to the beliefs of the 'milksop liberals' here, it's just life, no one said it was fair, just get on with it. Valuable life lesson, you don't always get what you deserve.
The kids probably aren't bothered and it might just get the parents to cough up what they owe.Arthur.
Comedy was a horse, Harvey a dog, both sadly gone. Thought I was choosing a password!
Currently;
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I'm far from one of these liberal types, but the issue I have with these things is purely that we should be aiming to have the best education for children with the most effective methods. I don't believe that the various aspects of this school are in any way helpful.
These children may have been academically "left behind" and may show vast improvement in their academic achievements but in the other non-measureable areas of a child's development I think at least some will be affected significantly for the worse. That's all I think. Not that it's terribly wrong and unnacceptable or anything, just that it is counterproductive.
Neither do I think that school policy is an insignificant matter, but hey, it's easy to ignore once it's passed you by. Various aspects of my school's policy and the general curriculum left to me leaving at 15 and going self-taught, so I know it matters.
Rough justice is a great thing, but we shouldn't actively increase it above naturally occuring levels. There's a difference between "that's life" and "that's life because I said so".Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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1st Aug 2016 10:48 am
comedyharvey
Member Since: 04 Jul 2010
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 1727
Well you may not have noticed but "it's like this because I said so" is just part of life.
If you have a boss, or are self employed with clients, then there's always someone who can say that to you.
Better learn how to react to that.
This school will succeed or fail by its results, its truancy record and whether it keeps a full roll.
Deputy head Barry Smith will either be 'arise Sir Barry Smith' for services to education or kicked out on his ar*e 'because somebody said so'.
The kids?, maybe they'll spend lunch having a sandwich and chatting with a teacher.
End of.
.Arthur.
Comedy was a horse, Harvey a dog, both sadly gone. Thought I was choosing a password!
Currently;
Discovery 3 HSE 2009
101" Fwd. Control 1976
Nuffield 10/90 Tractor (10/60 with 6 cylinder conversion) 1964
Previously;
Series III Lightweight. 1976.
1st Aug 2016 11:20 am
Riccardo
Member Since: 20 Feb 2010
Location: Porto (was Kent)
Posts: 4123
honestly I think that there are bigger issues that should be address and reason of concerns in the school: Bullying, huge differences in quality of teaching between schools, parents not paying what is due
Not sure having a separate lunch isolation class (supervised by a teacher and similar to the lunch non isolation) for the children eating only a sandwich (because parents did not pay for the food despite all the alerts) is such a big problem with terrible impact on childrenIt takes all sorts (to make a world).
honestly I think that there are bigger issues that should be address and reason of concerns in the school: Bullying, huge differences in quality of teaching between schools, parents not paying what is due
Not sure having a separate lunch isolation class (supervised by a teacher and similar to the lunch non isolation) for the children eating only a sandwich (because parents did not pay for the food despite all the alerts) is such a big problem with terrible impact on children
All those things are connected though, not independent of each other. Bullying is a damn hard thing to tackle, but make the best of the school and so will it be improved.
A separate class for those eating a sandwich may not be any great torture, but just why? That's the thing. Why? If it isn't punitive, what does it achieve.
comedyharvey wrote:
Well you may not have noticed but "it's like this because I said so" is just part of life.
If you have a boss, or are self employed with clients, then there's always someone who can say that to you.
Better learn how to react to that.
That's exactly what I mean though. My issue is that it teaches them not how, why or when to work with those situations but is more likely to make them think " off".
Blind obedience just encourages ignorance and is not helpful to me or others in their proximity. I do not do anything without identifying a personal interest in it, be that direct or through the will to help those I want to. That doesn't make me a difficult person, because I'm able to see the benefit in things. Whether that makes me a thermodynamic robot of higher or lower efficacy is for my judgement not.
People who take the attitude of "because I said so" are of no benefit to you or I and I don't see why they should be helped - it's a situation that 9 times out of 10 means they are in the wrong, in which case, it's an economy of failure. Much better to teach people to find their own reasoning in things.
The other way to look at it is that those people are only expecting you to do something voluntarily for payment. The children don't have that choice.
Quote:
This school will succeed or fail by its results, its truancy record and whether it keeps a full roll.
Ahh, that opens up a world of philosophy that, probably, nobody will ever get to the bottom of...Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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1st Aug 2016 1:26 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50977
NoDo$h wrote:
Even-handed bunch aren't they, these professionals
I was talking about educational leaders ...not individual teachers ...but hey... who am I to criticise those who want to demonise brexiteers ...I can overlook that 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
1st Aug 2016 1:32 pm
comedyharvey
Member Since: 04 Jul 2010
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 1727
Spot yourself in that article DG?
'Woolly metro-liberals'.
.Arthur.
Comedy was a horse, Harvey a dog, both sadly gone. Thought I was choosing a password!
Currently;
Discovery 3 HSE 2009
101" Fwd. Control 1976
Nuffield 10/90 Tractor (10/60 with 6 cylinder conversion) 1964
Previously;
Series III Lightweight. 1976.
1st Aug 2016 1:37 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50977
Well I guess it's a progression from being labeled a commie 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
1st Aug 2016 2:04 pm
Riccardo
Member Since: 20 Feb 2010
Location: Porto (was Kent)
Posts: 4123
Lost for Words wrote:
A separate class for those eating a sandwich may not be any great torture, but just why? That's the thing. Why? If it isn't punitive, what does it achieve.
The way I was looking at it is this as I tried to explain before
I guess that the people who pay will have some sort of "better food or choice" than a sandwich because the school cannot pay also for the parents. The school will give sandwich anyway to the children (would be bad if they leave them without food because the parents did not pay).
Honestly I think that having in the same room children having the better choice and children with the sandwich might be even worst than having a separate class. Do you think it is more damaging for the children to be in a room where others are having a full lunch whether they can only have a sandwich because dady and mammy did not pay or to be in a separate class all having sandwich with a teacher supervising them. Can you imagine one of the children asking for some food and the teacher telling him/her no you cannot because your parents did not pay so you can only have the sandwich or nothing
If you look it in this way I do not see this being really bad and even if the name sounds like a punishment (probably more for the parents than the children) it seems a sensible solution. The problem still remains with the parents not paying and do not see trauma for the childrenIt takes all sorts (to make a world).
D3 HSE LHD gone but not forgotten
1st Aug 2016 2:05 pm
comedyharvey
Member Since: 04 Jul 2010
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 1727
DG wrote:
Well I guess it's a progression from being labeled a commie
Yeah, there is that
Nice one.Arthur.
Comedy was a horse, Harvey a dog, both sadly gone. Thought I was choosing a password!
Currently;
Discovery 3 HSE 2009
101" Fwd. Control 1976
Nuffield 10/90 Tractor (10/60 with 6 cylinder conversion) 1964
It's not as if other pupils wouldn't know they were in a different room and do doubt why. If anything it only encourages them to look down on them. Instead, they should be saying, "it doesn't matter how much money you have or what you're eating, you can still be friends and eat together". I'd think the children will be more upset at not being able to be with their friends than anything else.
Given the single file, no talking etc. business it seems the least concerning aspect of the school though and they probably aren't allowed such things as friends anyway...
The sandwich scenario I don't have an issue with - if the parents haven't paid, they haven't paid. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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