DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Crankshaft notice

anglefire

Member Since: 09 Mar 2010
Location: In the Club House
Posts: 4180

There are something like 27,000 D3's on the UK roads alone - they aren't all duffers!

The problem is that you don't know if your's is next or not - but as long as it is serviced correctly with the right oils and filters and everything is fitted correctly, then they chances are no worse than any other car (I suspect!) Mark.
2006, D3 SE Auto - gone but not forgotten.
2014 BMW 530d M Sport Tourer.
1977 Triumph Spitfire 1500

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Disco Picture Website Here

7th Oct 2015 6:37 am

sinisa.spasov

Member Since: 01 Jan 2016
Location: Skopje
Posts: 2

2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Alaska White

2.7TD engine failure on discovery 3

Driving company's Discovery 3 with 2.7TD engine. Just suffered sudden engine failure without previous announcement(no signs that this can happen) with 175.000 km on the clock. No warning lights before the failure. Vehicle was regularly maintained, oil and filters changed on time. Belt set changed on 160.000km.
Can not say if extended oil warning light for 2-3 seconds when first morning engine starting ever since I drive this vehicle (from 120.000km) has something incommon with the failure.
Is there any goodwill offer for new engine from the company?

1st Jan 2016 2:14 pm

hgbosch

Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188

Hi All

are there some informations out there regarding failures of the newer cranks with the 16mm bolt thread. Or are there only the 14mm thread cranks involved.

It would be very interesting to get some conclusive evidence on this vexing topic. EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT

with kind regards

George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff

3rd Jan 2016 9:33 pm

itisrich

Member Since: 12 Aug 2008
Location: Geneva
Posts: 40

2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Buckingham Blue

My LR had under 40,000 miles on the clock with a full service history when it suffered 'the' crankshaft failure.
After more than 12 months of persistent contact with Landrover they did repair the engine. However they were very happy to sit on their hands and ignore the issue...

4th Jan 2016 11:56 am

Disco_Mikey

Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20837

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Cairns Blue

http://www.rrsport.co.uk/forum/topic42949....f2d8af647f

My D3 Build Thread

TDV8 Retrofit Build Thread

4th Jan 2016 1:57 pm

longclose

Member Since: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Dorset UK
Posts: 234

2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Tonga Green

I am in no doubt that there is an issue and is reported widely especially in SA on the 4x4 forum with a lot of doomsayers with the topic regurgitating weekly.

Is it endemic no, is it above the industry average I would say yes. It hit the news in SA with LR quoting 1.3% failure, however this will not include the vehicles out of warranty not reported to LR but taken to an independent, this is unfortunate as LR provide 7 years and 240KM's if serviced by them. My instinct and rudimentary research is its more like 3%. My search by topic thread engine failure 67, crank failures 5. Considering this is a global site for D3 owners certainly not endemic. It never really gets a mention on this site compared to the tensioner issue.

http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/cars/land-ro...-1.1925479

It is very interesting that genuine cranks have only in the last few months become available, I suspect this is to ensure that the scrapyards are not full of dead D3's and they can be resurrected at a reasonable cost to limit brand damage and reputation.

It is also interesting that the knock was picked up on the RR thread before complete failure. A lot of the reported failures in SA state that no noise was detected before the catastrophic failure which I find hard to believe, but there again I have an Engineers ear being time served and the Disco is well sound proofed

.

Tabbed bearings have not been used in modern engines for well over 15 years so I cannot believe this is the offending factor. I suspect that the issue is a quality issue on the hardening of the crank as this cannot be measured on each crankshaft as it is destructive so will be batch based using SPC.

Unfortunately it has left me watching the oil light and listening for any signs of a knock on start up and when hot on my 2 D3's, however a small price to pay for the smiles it gives. Owning a Discovery 3 is like dating a model.. a firm body and shape, wow.. the ride is fantastic >

for this your wallet can take a pounding and you worry about being deflated at any time...
2009 Model D3 HSE

4th Jan 2016 6:38 pm

hgbosch

Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188

Hi Longclose

great posting! Only on the number of engine failure incidents you need to do some more homework. Contact British4x4, the Centre in Durban and LRSpares (Benoni) and get their input as well.

Whereas a few years ago, the majority of TDV6 engine failures were caused by the now infamous plastic thermostat housing (that used to split and dump all coolant), with them now replaced at regular intervals, the current scenario concentrates mainly on bearing, crank and fractured oil pump housing induced failures. In SA the oil pump housing issue seems to be much less of a problem compared to the UK.

Here it is also important to note, that once the engine is stripped, the CRANKSHAFT MUST BE INSPECTED for hairline cracks.

From the link posted above by Disco_Mikey it seems as if the 3 litre engine is not immune to turned bearings either.

Now that there are rebuild kits available, the cost of repairing such engines will reduce significantly, providing that the bearing caps have not been damaged by rotating bearings.

I firmly believe that if JLR would have made available proper rebuild kits and parts from early on, this issue would never have been blown out of proportion so much. Also the 7 year/240'000km refurb offer from JLR (SA) shows, that there really is a problem and that JLR have owned up to it.

I agree with you that proper listening for "unwanted" noises from the engine compartment can save considerable cost if caught early enough.

I am also a big Triumph fan, having owned 2 TR6 PI's (between 1974 and 2007), one of them with a blue printed engine with all the nice Triumphtune bits

and a Spitfire Mk3. EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT

with kind regards

George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff

5th Jan 2016 3:36 am

longclose

Member Since: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Dorset UK
Posts: 234

Hi George,

To put the record straight...

Yes as a time served Engineer I did do my homework which got me my rudimentary facts before and after I bought my D3. The Centre Durban (Paul) said approx. ten. LR dealer No.1 (Foreman is LR Mastertech in SA) had only 4 in the last 10 years, LR dealer No.2 (Workshop Manager) had less than 10 since LR3 launch.

When I pushed them and challenged on what was being reported on the SA 4x4 forum all other engine and crank failures were down to other external factors, not down to a generic crank problem you appear to keep pushing.

I shortly after purchasing my D3's put a post on this very forum asking for feedback on crank failures following the various postings on the SA 4x4 forum, the lack of responses prompted me to validate for myself directly with LR agents and Indies.

http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic126345.html

I would kindly request that we all take a statistical approach and get proper evidence based facts before we comment. Yes we know there are failures I have stated this, yes LR have admitted it and have put there hand up. So my statement @ 3% (210 in SA in total) based around me personally knowing the Master Technicians and making direct calls to the leading indies validates my figures, I have no reason to believe that they all would lie.

I have put this up on this forum as I wanted to stay clear of the heightened level of what is becoming a personal dispute (not between you and me BTW) on the SA 4x4 forum where matters can easily escalate. I feel that this forum is the best forum to move away from the ongoing doom mongering around the D3 and get evidence directly from the largest D3 owner cohort in the world.

I challenge you and all other members/indies on this forum to put up evidence based facts, please not hear say or doom mongering. If I am proved wrong then I will graciously accept this as it will help us all come to terms if we have a lingering time bomb. If I am proved right I would expect you to post this link on the SA forum yourself and be gracious to the other members who all feel they have a ticking time bomb and are dumping their D3's as a result.

Site moderators can we set up a poll please..? Owning a Discovery 3 is like dating a model.. a firm body and shape, wow.. the ride is fantastic >

for this your wallet can take a pounding and you worry about being deflated at any time...
2009 Model D3 HSE

5th Jan 2016 8:19 am

hgbosch

Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188

Hi Longclose

I think a poll would be the proper way to approach this. The poll would allow persons to vote, whitout getting involved in lengthy discussions

We also have to keep in mind, that only a very small percentage of owners are either on this or the SA forum. EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT

with kind regards

George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff

5th Jan 2016 8:52 am

longclose

Member Since: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Dorset UK
Posts: 234

Hi George,

Agreed, I think we have to be ensure that the failure is purely down to the crankshaft/bearing failing, and not being caused by other external factors.

Perhaps the site moderators can create the poll as "generic - engine failure" and "specific - crank bearing" failure and by year model.

As we know and has been highlighted on a number of occasions, incorrect fitment of the oil filter has caused engine failure as has turbo seals failing. The indies represented on this forum I am sure will be able to steer it in the right direction.

I had to re-build my Stag engine as the idiots who put the recon engine in prior to my ownership missed the loading spring off the oil filter contaminating all the running bearings with swarf from the re- manufacture process! This is why my engineering instinct is always looks for the root cause first and the manufacturing and design second.

Let us hope we can get some buy in contribution to this poll...

Owning a Discovery 3 is like dating a model.. a firm body and shape, wow.. the ride is fantastic >

for this your wallet can take a pounding and you worry about being deflated at any time...
2009 Model D3 HSE

5th Jan 2016 9:35 am

pitouille

Member Since: 22 Nov 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 11

Main engine failure SDV6

Hi,
My disco 4 SDV6 from 2011 has had main engine failure at 80 000km ( 50 000 miles) last week which is rather uncommon for this type of engine. From the noise I heard and the forums I have read ( http://landyonline.blogspot.ch/2015/10/lan...ngine.html ) I strongly suspect a crankshaft problem. My dealer told me that the engine had to be fully replaced ( they have not opened it fully yet but they claim it is mechanically stuck and does not spin any longer). The warranty off course is expired... I bought it in UK. Does any one of you knows towards whom I can turn myself to negotiate a participation by LR ? ( or full replacement). From the service bulletin and multiple posts on the subject this look like a well known problem. My LR has been serviced by LR in Geneva every year and this happened all of the sudden without any prior warning.
Thanks for your help
Pierre

22nd Sep 2016 6:29 am

itisrich

Member Since: 12 Aug 2008
Location: Geneva
Posts: 40

Hi Pierre,
My vehicle was also bought in the UK and serviced in the LR dealer Emil Frey in Nyon annually. It had a full service history up to the time the engine failed around 36,000 miles only (D3 2009). Be carful to keep your service book or make a copy of the service history as I did. Emil Frey claimed mine was not in the vehicle so they didn't have to take responsibility, they were hopeless and unhelpful. In my experience Landrover customer service both UK and then Swiss did their best not to repair it... having a Landrover from the uk in Switzerland was another excuse not to be helpful. PM me if you like I can tell you more, Pete LR on this forum can point you in the right direction he was a useful point of contact during the 8/9months it took for Landrover to give in and repair the fault. Various series vehicles (sold)
Range Rover (sold)
D3 (sold)
D4 (sold)
Volvo XC90

22nd Sep 2016 7:43 am

pitouille

Member Since: 22 Nov 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 11

Hi, It would be real glad to benefit from your experience. Mine is serviced by Autobritt in Geneva.
Would you mind MP me your phone number ? ( as I have not posted enough message I am not entitled to MP people yet ).

Thank you
Pierre

22nd Sep 2016 8:52 am

itisrich

Member Since: 12 Aug 2008
Location: Geneva
Posts: 40

Hi Pierre,
I have sent you a PM
Cheers Rich Various series vehicles (sold)
Range Rover (sold)
D3 (sold)
D4 (sold)
Volvo XC90

22nd Sep 2016 2:38 pm

Bubbles

Member Since: 27 Feb 2016
Location: Nn12
Posts: 12

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti Grey

Don't know if it's of any use but there seemed to be an update on TOPix in August 2016. I don't have full access so dont know details but it relates to camshaft and bearings. Maybe someone with full access could update?

24th Sep 2016 3:39 pm