DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - brake upgrades just don't get it :-)

chalky

Member Since: 22 Aug 2008
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 3145

2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 XS Manual Tonga Green

Chippy wrote:
Just getting a feel for how much the premium goes up by seeing my car is my own and not on my fleet policy, before I consider doing the mod.

That depends who you insure it with ?

A plan have done mine with my mods as they cover modifications

Only dead fish go with the Flow !

26th Mar 2014 5:34 pm

Chippy

Member Since: 05 Jan 2012
Location: Surrey
Posts: 520

I quite agree, body and trim changes usually have little bearing on the premium where as engine and mechanical part usually do in my experience. Transit Custom LWB
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Transit LWB
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New Ford Ranger
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1.5 Ton Volvo Digger

26th Mar 2014 5:36 pm

chalky

Member Since: 22 Aug 2008
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 3145

Dusty

Where abouts in London do you live where you have not had to brake hard in 30 years ?

I work in London and regularly find myself either nearly running some one over or hitting a car conducting a random U turn ? Only dead fish go with the Flow !

26th Mar 2014 5:42 pm

yogi972

Member Since: 05 Jun 2011
Location: Kineton
Posts: 3373

2010 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Auto Alaska White

Maybe he's a bus driver....

26th Mar 2014 5:49 pm

chalky

Member Since: 22 Aug 2008
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 3145

Or a dust bin man ?

Drive from the North Circular in traffic towards Golders Green you wont need brakes bedding in after that, its like Tel Aviv on a Friday Night !

Then the Run Down from Hampstead towards Swiss Cottage when the mums triple park on the school run

Only dead fish go with the Flow !

26th Mar 2014 6:28 pm

Dusty

Member Since: 23 Sep 2013
Location: London
Posts: 1022

2015 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Corris Grey

Based North West London but drive all over. Whilst lots goes on in London, due to the traffic it all tends to happen very slowly, so one usually has plenty of time to avoid situations. Took both my PSV and HGV tests in London traffic and that does tend to improve one's anticipation levels!! Although I did once have a wheel chair user chain themselves to the centre pole of the platform on a Routemaster, in the middle of Oxford Street as way of a protest against lack of access for disabled people on public transport. Even made the traffic news as it caused chaos!! You've got me reminiscing all about the 'good old days' now

Discovery 4 HSE
SDV6
2015

26th Mar 2014 6:31 pm

A.J.M

Member Since: 31 Oct 2009
Location: Carluke
Posts: 2831

2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Yulong White

One of my braking efforts was to avoid Bambi who had felt the need to cross the back roads to work, just as i was passing. As much as i enjoy venison, it's not something i want to run over and damage the car with.

The second was at night, on the M8, no indication was given from the car, it had plenty of time to pull out and pass long before i arrived. I had signaled and moved over in plenty of time, with Xenon lights and the Osram bulbs, it's not like i was easy to miss.
I was within seconds of passing said car before they swerved in front of me. You wouldn't have been able to put a Fiesta between the gap i had once i had slowed down enough. I managed to lift myself off the seat i was on the brake that hard...

I have no worries about slowing down now.
Brembo brakes have extra pistons to exert pressure with, pads with easily 30-40% larger surface area and 2 inch diamater larger brake disc's compared to the tdv6 set up.

I will be adding extra power to the car later this year, so i've sorted the brakes and suspension before i turn the wick on the engine up.

In loving memory of FA54WSK.

Rest well old friend, your work is done.

26th Mar 2014 6:33 pm

Disco_Mikey

Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20787

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Cairns Blue

Bambi

Had a close encounter with him too, in the D3. Little

Still, wasn't as lucky as the bambi that ran into the front wing on my Skoda. Verdict was suicide My D3 Build Thread

TDV8 Retrofit Build Thread

26th Mar 2014 8:48 pm

Disco_Mikey

Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20787

tonywolf wrote:
I cant make my mind up what to do, Brembos or V8 setup So Q: can you convert the D3 brake disc/calliper setup to a D4 brake disk/ calliper setup

Yes, D4 front brakes will fit. Same size of discs as Brembo, and pads have a similar surface area

Pete C wrote:
The test involved braking from 85 mph to zero, the Discovery recording a stopping distance of 70.9 metres.

Admittedly, from 60-0mph, but still:

Quote:
the difference between Brembo and non Brembo factory set-ups(TDV6 vs TDV8 is 4 meters (60-0)

B16 KJR wrote:
Quote:
The standard TDV6 setup is barely adequate, IMHO.

I had a few "moments" when slowing from reasonable speeds, the car just felt like it was not going to slow down.

Much worse when you are towing a caravan Mike, that's why I got mine changed to the V8 brakes

Not done any towing as yet, but that may change in the future

My D3 Build Thread

TDV8 Retrofit Build Thread

26th Mar 2014 10:07 pm

LT

Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23595

2016 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 Landmark LE Auto Santorini Black

Disco_Mikey wrote:
The standard TDV6 setup is barely adequate, IMHO.

I had a few "moments" when slowing from reasonable speeds, the car just felt like it was not going to slow down. They gave very little confidence when braking, and had to plan your braking well in advance. Would not have liked to be in a position to have to use them in an emergency...

I agree with the above.

I never understood why LR had 2 different sizes of disc and caliper holders for the D3, over than cutting costs. If the TDV6 brakes were so capable, why fit larger discs to the V8? Why fit even bigger discs to the D4?

Having ridden motorbikes for 30 years, not even bothering to get a full car licence until I was 20, I'd like to think I can read the road fairly well. So I don't think my driving style has any correlation at all with the D3 TDV6 braking system.

The V8 brake upgrade that I had done to my D3, using genuine LR parts, made a noticeable improvement.

I never conducted a properly measured comparison between the TDV6 and V8, but I'd be surprised if the stopping distance wasn't less with the V8 discs. In certainly felt as if it would be.

I still think it's one of the best mods for a TDV6 D3. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)

26th Mar 2014 11:30 pm

DG
Site Moderator

Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50971

The difference between the V8 and TDV6 was because there was an expectation that those with the V8 would be taking more "advantage" of the additional speed and acceleration performance than the TDV6.

But hey ...the "why" argument doesn't stack up because why do anything ...why move to a 3.0, why improve the suspension components, why have two turbo's instead of one?

21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021

26th Mar 2014 11:50 pm

NoDo$h

Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689

One of the best things you can do with the brakes is keep the pads and discs OEM. I made the mistake of opting for whatever the local auto factor had on the shelf last time and I had to check that they had actually been replaced. If anything they are worse than the worn originals and the amount of brake dust they chuck out is insane.

Only time I've really thought the car under-braked was when fully laden and "making progress" with a suicidal navigator calling the bends down a very tight, steep Bavarian 1:5. When I got to the bottom I was stood on the pedal and the car just wasn't slowing, although the smoke trail from the wheels would have made finding our wreckage a simple task if I'd lost it. Had to bring it down on the gears while my bum attempted to rip holes in the seat.

I doubt V8 disks would have helped much, to be honest

I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.

27th Mar 2014 12:01 am

LT

Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23595

DG wrote:
The difference between the V8 and TDV6 was because there was an expectation that those with the V8 would be taking more "advantage" of the additional speed and acceleration performance than the TDV6.

But hey ...the "why" argument doesn't stack up because why do anything ...why move to a 3.0, why improve the suspension components, why have two turbo's instead of one?

Not sure how much faster the acceleration or top speed is on the V8 D3, or what the weight difference is. But if the TDV6 brakes were so good they'd easily cope.

Both TDV6 and V8 brakes were available to LR at the same time for several years. You mention further developments such as the 3.0 etc. but apart from a brief crossover period (2.7 D4's) these were never available to LR to make a choice as to which was fitted to different models.

The TDV6 brakes were not dangerous, they were just not really up to the job, especially when fully loaded.

A classic case of corporate number crunchers looking to save a few quid, is my explanation. I bet the engineers wanted the bigger brakes fitted.

Thankfully the D4 brakes are well matched to the vehicle

2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)

27th Mar 2014 1:37 am

DG
Site Moderator

Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50971

Hmmmm ....if they were not really up to the job then what is that statement measured by other than just opinion ....how many of the 300,000 diesel D3's failed to stop when required

I'm all for improvement ...but having had 2 D3's and been around many with similar ...and now having a D4.... I just don't compute

...sorry but it just must be down to an expectation of some beyond the physical capability of the vehicle.

21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021

27th Mar 2014 1:47 am

LT

Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23595

I can only post my own experiences and opinions based on driving my own TDV6 D3 for many thousands of miles with both the standard brakes and V8 brakes. All LR OE parts from TLO.

I was always conscious that the TDV6 brakes were, IMO, just not as good as they should have been. I used to drive accordingly, but it's not possible to always predict an emergency braking situation.

In contrast, I found the V8 brakes to be noticeable better and inspired more confidence. The combination making for a more enjoyable driving experience.

I'm not making comparisons to previous LR models, as I never owned one or drove one regularly.

It's a simple as that, if others don't agree with me that's fine.

However, I've yet to hear anyone who did the same conversion, using the same parts, say that it wasn't an improvement.

My assumptions about cost cutting have no foundation whatsoever. Purely a guess based upon my understanding of how large manufacturers can operate.

Anyway time for bed.

2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)

27th Mar 2014 2:15 am