Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5075
Hi Gary,
No I'd say the DC/DC voltage outputs look correct to me, (typically 55v to 68v) or thereabouts.
Pedal pos sensors 1 & 2 both look to be in range to my eyes (@ 0% throttle) but the readings at full throttle should be looked at to confirm. (4.00v ps1, 2.00 v ps2)
The thing is the OP has posted a huge amount of data here, all of which takes a lot of time to crunch! And then it may not even be relevant, thus proving utterly fruitless!
It's better to focus on a few systems at a time and work through them. This way you have a better chance of taking potential contributors with you and "in the game"!!
I would respectfully suggest the OP needs to start with the basic stuff if he hasn't already done so. (Sorry I couldn't spend the time to read the entire thread) Start with what you know which in this case "seems" to be a temperature related incident/error.
So, as a starting point look at live values for the engine/transmission, selecting the temp values and see what's going on there as the test drive reaches full temp. Try to stress the problem on the test run by varying driving style and hopefully provoke a component dtc other than just a COMS error! This might give some direction in which to focus with the diagnostics!
If there is nothing meaningful from that, then move on to power supply (Alt, earths, Batt etc) and after that on to the wiring plugs of the suspected components like the TCM, transfer box loom plugs, etc.
There might something in what you say regarding either power supply or earthing, and these should be scrupulously interrogated. BUT, on the surface this to me seems to be a COMS issue, and so I'd be looking closer at the CAN BUS cabling/connectors to the IID signalled components.
The MM test should be on DC volts not AC yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
28th Feb 2021 3:17 am
TyphoonDisco
Member Since: 18 Jan 2021
Location: Morpeth
Posts: 102
Hi,
Thank you, I did have a look at this previously and it looked to be in quite an exposed position, not the best place for electrics! There are 2 large block connectors with sliding locks which hold the male/female parts together. Are these the 2 you refer to?
The connections/pins looked clean as a whistle but I wonder if one of the wires has frayed.
Today I am going to check those 2 connectors again, give all the cables a wiggle to see if that causes the issue and also check the wiring in the passenger door sill area.
After that I think it's time to get into end to end testing for continuity issues. I've no idea how to do this so it will be over to the experts!
28th Feb 2021 9:30 am
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14177
PROFSR G wrote:
Hi Gary,
No I'd say the DC/DC voltage outputs look correct to me, (typically 55v to 68v) or thereabouts.
Pedal pos sensors 1 & 2 both look to be in range to my eyes (@ 0% throttle) but the readings at full throttle should be looked at to confirm. (4.00v ps1, 2.00 v ps2)
The thing is the OP has posted a huge amount of data here, all of which takes a lot of time to crunch! And then it may not even be relevant, thus proving utterly fruitless!
It's better to focus on a few systems at a time and work through them. This way you have a better chance of taking potential contributors with you and "in the game"!!
I would respectfully suggest the OP needs to start with the basic stuff if he hasn't already done so. (Sorry I couldn't spend the time to read the entire thread) Start with what you know which in this case "seems" to be a temperature related incident/error.
So, as a starting point look at live values for the engine/transmission, selecting the temp values and see what's going on there as the test drive reaches full temp. Try to stress the problem on the test run by varying driving style and hopefully provoke a component dtc other than just a COMS error! This might give some direction in which to focus with the diagnostics!
If there is nothing meaningful from that, then move on to power supply (Alt, earths, Batt etc) and after that on to the wiring plugs of the suspected components like the TCM, transfer box loom plugs, etc.
There might something in what you say regarding either power supply or earthing, and these should be scrupulously interrogated. BUT, on the surface this to me seems to be a COMS issue, and so I'd be looking closer at the CAN BUS cabling/connectors to the IID signalled components.
The MM test should be on DC volts not AC
Hi mate
Bless u for having a look, very grateful , was also thinking that seeing it’s not coming up with a hard DTC , great call ref live data monitoring sensors etc
Indeed that’s what I thought ref earths where maybe a signal is going back but not a good one so maybe it’s just below what it should be , not enough to trigger a hard DTC but a soft U comms error
Got to love em, lol
Ref the mm, seen where it says to test an alternators diode is to set the mm to AC and should be below 0.5 volts
Edit, just looked back at the link , ref
3. Checking for a Bad Diode
Usually, a bad alternator diode will cause your headlights or instrument panel lights to flicker or dim and, sometimes, drain battery power overnight, or in minutes.
* To check for a possible bad alternator diode, switch your voltmeter to a low setting on the AC (alternating current) voltage scale.
* With the engine running, touch the meter probes to the battery terminals.
* Your voltmeter should read 0 AC volts.
Any amount of AC voltage would indicate a bad diode, so you'll need to replace the alternator.
was just curious and Hands up know I’m guilty of getting confused regarding where the decimal point is with some readings
Am wondering if a trip to halfords may be worth it in order for it to be checked out with an oscilloscope
Thks again my friend
28th Feb 2021 10:12 am
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14177
TyphoonDisco wrote:
Hi,
Thank you, I did have a look at this previously and it looked to be in quite an exposed position, not the best place for electrics! There are 2 large block connectors with sliding locks which hold the male/female parts together. Are these the 2 you refer to?
The connections/pins looked clean as a whistle but I wonder if one of the wires has frayed.
Today I am going to check those 2 connectors again, give all the cables a wiggle to see if that causes the issue and also check the wiring in the passenger door sill area.
After that I think it's time to get into end to end testing for continuity issues. I've no idea how to do this so it will be over to the experts!
Hi buddy
Just had a thought , if I have a halfords etc near u that could do a full diagnostics on ur alternator to rule it out
Ref continuity, disconnect battery and do the same as u did with an earth lead, ie meter into continuity , one test probe on one end of the wire u wish to test and other test probe on the other end of the wire
Indeed the one near the near side rear wheel
Also know ur not daft , plse, plse don’t ever be tempted get under the disco without axle stands
Also check the connectors behind the headlights , moved from the front wheel arch after 2007 I believe
Plse let us know how u get on and there’s always help here so don’t think ur on ur own
28th Feb 2021 10:22 am
TyphoonDisco
Member Since: 18 Jan 2021
Location: Morpeth
Posts: 102
Hi both, once again thank you for the support, it's greatly appreciated.
Can I ask if the alternator diode would also cause an issue when the engine is not running and just the ignition is on? I would have thought the alternator would only come into play when the engine is running?
I've just gone out to the car to get it ready to inspect the wiring, I've left it engine off, cold, ignition on and I'm going to see if the fault occurs completely cold. I have a feeling it will because RELAY 4 is clicking away every 15-16 seconds!
28th Feb 2021 10:22 am
TyphoonDisco
Member Since: 18 Jan 2021
Location: Morpeth
Posts: 102
Hi Gary,
Which connectors should I be looking for behind the headlights? Nearside or offside?
Thanks!
28th Feb 2021 10:24 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5075
gstuart wrote:
PROFSR G wrote:
The MM test should be on DC volts not AC
Ref the mm, seen where it says to test an alternators diode is to set the mm to AC and should be below 0.5 volts
Sorry Gary I misunderstood and thought you were reading the output voltage.
AC for the diode, DC for the rectified side yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
28th Feb 2021 3:32 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5075
TyphoonDisco wrote:
Hi,
Thank you, I did have a look at this previously and it looked to be in quite an exposed position, not the best place for electrics! There are 2 large block connectors with sliding locks which hold the male/female parts together. Are these the 2 you refer to?
The connections/pins looked clean as a whistle but I wonder if one of the wires has frayed.
Today I am going to check those 2 connectors again, give all the cables a wiggle to see if that causes the issue and also check the wiring in the passenger door sill area.
After that I think it's time to get into end to end testing for continuity issues. I've no idea how to do this so it will be over to the experts!
Yes, just have a look at the wires and carefully inspect each in case there's anything amiss there. Most of the power train electrics run through those connectors, but not all!
The 07MY> suspension harness terminal blocks are behind the n/s/f headlight. They're big so you can't miss them. Again have a look just in case but it's is less likely to fail than the ones mentioned above.yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
28th Feb 2021 3:41 pm
TyphoonDisco
Member Since: 18 Jan 2021
Location: Morpeth
Posts: 102
Hi,
It's been another long day under the car.
I've removed the NSR wheel and arch and inspected the 2 blocks. Although they were caked in dried mud/dirt, there doesn't seem to be any signs of damage, the internals of the connectors look clean and dry and no amount of wiggling would cause the fault to come on.
I've also examined every connector under the bonnet, including behind the nearside headlight. Lots of wiggling/disconnecting of everything but couldn't find any signs of corrosion/split wiring/damaged sheathing or anything that could get the fault to occur.
I have tried a few diagnostics using the MM. I tried testing the volts AC at the battery terminals with just the ignition on then with the engine running.
With just the ignition on I get 0.001vAC but every so often it just flickers up to approx 0.006 to 0.008vAC and then returns to 0.001vAC.
With the engine running it sits at approx 0.013vAC and then every so often it will flicker up to 0.088 to 0.100vAC.
If you'll remember in one of my earliest posts, when the car is idling I sometimes get a little change in audio as if the car is slightly labouring. It's not perfectly regular so I can't forecast when it will happen but I'd say once every 5-10 seconds. What I've seen with the above is that this slight change in engine note is often accompanied by a minor spike in vAC across the battery terminals.
In addition, when sat with just the ignition on waiting for the fault to arise it tends to come on just after one of the regular clicks of RELAY 6 which happen every 15-16 seconds.
In summary, it seems like there's a regulation/voltage issue somewhere. There's definitely something not happy with RELAY 6 and I think the issue is eventually dragging down the electrical to the point where the CANBUS has a hissy fit.
Hope my random blurb makes sense!
28th Feb 2021 4:21 pm
TyphoonDisco
Member Since: 18 Jan 2021
Location: Morpeth
Posts: 102
Sorry, I meant RELAY 4! That's the one that clicks every 15-16 seconds.
I should have added. The slight change in engine note with the variation in vAC/vDC when viewed from inside the car also shows a temporary slight dimming of the nav screen and the headlights. Very very slight but I can tell there's a change in brightness as if the systems aren't getting what they need in terms of power.
What would be causing RELAY 4 to continually click? Would this be an over-voltage situation or an under-voltage situation?
28th Feb 2021 4:25 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5075
I think R6 is the Engine ECU relay, swap it with one similar in the box and see if it changes the game?yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
28th Feb 2021 4:32 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5075
No matter, swap it with relay 3 or 2 and see what happensyµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
28th Feb 2021 4:33 pm
TyphoonDisco
Member Since: 18 Jan 2021
Location: Morpeth
Posts: 102
Hi,
I've swapped RELAY 4 with RELAY 2 and 3 but it still clicks every 15 seconds or so which makes me think it's not the physical relay that is broken.
As you'll know, with the ignition on, there is a constant whine from the engine which sounds like a quiet/tiny hoover. This was stopping me from hearing the "bong" from the cockpit so I removed RELAY 6 to quiet the engine. This did not prevent RELAY 4 clicking either.
28th Feb 2021 4:42 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14177
PROFSR G wrote:
gstuart wrote:
PROFSR G wrote:
The MM test should be on DC volts not AC
Ref the mm, seen where it says to test an alternators diode is to set the mm to AC and should be below 0.5 volts
Sorry Gary I misunderstood and thought you were reading the output voltage.
AC for the diode, DC for the rectified side
I’ll forgive u just this once , Next time it’s the tower for u
Takes cover
Still curious about that alternator if it’s causing a spike through the relay and then triggering the faults through the other ecu’s in the canbus
Last edited by gstuart on 1st Mar 2021 10:10 am. Edited 2 times in total
1st Mar 2021 9:47 am
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14177
TyphoonDisco wrote:
Hi,
It's been another long day under the car.
I've removed the NSR wheel and arch and inspected the 2 blocks. Although they were caked in dried mud/dirt, there doesn't seem to be any signs of damage, the internals of the connectors look clean and dry and no amount of wiggling would cause the fault to come on.
I've also examined every connector under the bonnet, including behind the nearside headlight. Lots of wiggling/disconnecting of everything but couldn't find any signs of corrosion/split wiring/damaged sheathing or anything that could get the fault to occur.
I have tried a few diagnostics using the MM. I tried testing the volts AC at the battery terminals with just the ignition on then with the engine running.
With just the ignition on I get 0.001vAC but every so often it just flickers up to approx 0.006 to 0.008vAC and then returns to 0.001vAC.
With the engine running it sits at approx 0.013vAC and then every so often it will flicker up to 0.088 to 0.100vAC.
If you'll remember in one of my earliest posts, when the car is idling I sometimes get a little change in audio as if the car is slightly labouring. It's not perfectly regular so I can't forecast when it will happen but I'd say once every 5-10 seconds. What I've seen with the above is that this slight change in engine note is often accompanied by a minor spike in vAC across the battery terminals.
In addition, when sat with just the ignition on waiting for the fault to arise it tends to come on just after one of the regular clicks of RELAY 6 which happen every 15-16 seconds.
In summary, it seems like there's a regulation/voltage issue somewhere. There's definitely something not happy with RELAY 6 and I think the issue is eventually dragging down the electrical to the point where the CANBUS has a hissy fit.
Hope my random blurb makes sense!
Hiya
Ur so welcome mate, always a team effort , alas don’t know how much help I’ve been, lol
Great you’ve checked those connectors , must admit am very suspicious of AC diode test results in possibly being a stuffed alternator causing the issues ??
Can u get to a halfords etc , plus also wondering if it’s a genuine Denso , other makes can cause all sorts of issues
Also this clicking is very curious , as I’m one of ur screens it’s says voltage above threshold
Ref
Cell Phone
U3003-17 (AC) Battery voltage - General electrical failure - circuit voltage above threshold
( on 21-02-2021 17:52:21 at 100814 mi )
As you’ve checked every earth lead and also used ur MM to check each one to prove continuity I must admit I would get that alternator checked out as indeed the best way is using an oscilloscope , or maybe there’s an electrical company near u that could fully test it
Would hate for u to just replace it without a true 100% diagnostics and still be in the same position
That’s my two cents for the day , lol
Plse let us know how things go
Ps, wonder if it would be a good idea to take ur gap iid with u just in case
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum