Member Since: 19 Sep 2018
Location: Poole, Dorset
Posts: 716
Oval Autos - Rebuilt 3.0 TDV6
So after my post back in January concerning my 3.0 TDV6 RRS that had suffered a suspect spun main bearing, I can happily say that the car is now back on the road and running well thanks to Joe and the team at Oval Autos.
When the unthinkable happened, I spent countless hours on the phone getting opinions from many independents including some well-known forum members such as SteveNorman and Disco_Mikey (thanks guys). I also spent days scouring the web to arm myself with as much information as possible because as I rightly found out – there are a lot of cowboys in the engine business!
Naming no names, some of the rebuilders claim that they have a source of brand new cranks and others who have tested these cranks say don’t touch them with a bargepole due to the variance in the weight and balancing. Some independents told me that they have customers with rebuilt engines which have been fine, others told me that their customers have had no end of various problems with rebuilt engines and that they only fit new short engines direct from Land Rover. It really is a minefield out there!
Given that a new short engine plus ancillaries and fitting would come to £10k+ that really wasn’t an option for me on my 9 year old vehicle so my options were either to:
a) Sell the vehicle as a non-runner after only 5 months of ownership
b) Have a rebuilt engine fitted
As I had heard many of the horror stories about rebuilt engines and the dodgy companies that operate in this space, I would only take this option if I could locate someone I could trust and who would put a decent warranty on the engine and their work.
A saw a couple of Joe’s recent posts on the forum so I decided to get in touch about his services and it became apparent that he really does know these engines inside and out. Being an Engineer, I wanted to know all the details so armed with all of my previous research, I asked many questions and received honest, straight answers concerning costings, where he sourced the major components from, the build process, the testing and running in process etc. Eventually I had found someone who I was confident in to supply and fit a rebuilt engine which meant I didn’t have to sell the 2.7 tonnes of scrap on my driveway!
He sources all major components such as blocks, heads, cranks etc. via breakers from running engines that have been removed from accident damaged vehicles. The engines are then broken down into their individual components and are measured for adherence to the original specification and tolerances. The blocks, heads and cranks are all sent to specialists for refurbishment and the pistons, conrods and crank are likewise sent away to a specialist to be balanced as a complete set. When they get all of the components back, they rebuild the engines complete with new piston rings, bearings, gaskets, chains, guides and tensioners etc. They then put a 12 month or 12,000 mile warranty on the engines which shows that they are confident in their rebuilds!
All injectors from customer vehicles are sent away for testing. If any are out of specification, they are replaced. Turbos are visually inspected and EGRs are cleaned and tested also. New oil pumps and water pumps are fitted to all engines that they rebuild also. After fitting, all vehicles are road tested for 100-200 miles with a test rig attached which measures the oil pressure at the both the oil filter housing and lower down.
After removal of the body and the engine from mine…
…it became evident that the car had already had a recon engine fitted prior to me buying it. The outside of the block had been sealed with silicone and painted over and the inside of the had been badly welded up. It just goes to show that there are dodgy places out there that just patch these engines up, get them running again and take the customers money for a really crappy job!
After removal of the sump, they discovered that one of the main bearings had rotated and blocked off the oil gallery to the big end bearing next to it. However, the crank still was in one piece, but unable to be reused as it had been previously reground.
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
Three of my injectors were also found to be out of specification and there was a minor oil leak from my secondary turbo so that was replaced also.
Here are a couple of pictures of the shiny, reconditioned block to be used…
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
After Joe and the team had installed the engine and road tested the vehicle for over 100 miles, I made my way up to the West Midlands to pick the car up last Saturday. After a quick coffee and a demo of the work that they do, Joe accompanied me in taking the car out for a test drive with her new engine with the oil pressure test rig still hooked up which was good to see. Then it was back to the workshop for a gearbox flush with Rosie, one of Joe's new workshop assistants...
I appreciate that it’s early days and I’m still running the engine in, but the engine sounds great and the experience in dealing with Oval has likewise been great. So far, so good and I hope it stays that way!
For the record, I have no affiliation with Joe or Oval Autos apart from being a satisfied customer who has had a non-runner brought back to life without incurring the cost of a brand new engine from Land Rover!
As an aside, here’s a picture of the rogues’ gallery of 3.0 scrap cranks that is growing in size by the week at Joe's place…
Click image to enlarge
Kev
MY2014 L405 RR Vogue SE 4.4 SDV8 in Corris Grey
MY2010 L320 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6 in Stornoway Grey
4th Apr 2019 10:22 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14366
Nice write up. It’s reassuring to know that there are good options out there should the worst happen. New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
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4th Apr 2019 10:47 pm
ASPGuru
Member Since: 25 Mar 2007
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 100
Member Since: 12 Jan 2016
Location: Surrey / SW London
Posts: 2138
Keep us informed with how you progress over time.
Current: D4 HSE
Previous: BMW Z4M Coupe
Previous: Land Rover Defender 90 CSW Td5
Previous: Land Rover Discovery Td5 ES
5th Apr 2019 2:01 am
Dave T
Member Since: 03 Jul 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 6910
think I need to up my guess at snapped cranks!
hope all goes well, there's too many untrustworthy places out thereJoined the BMWX5 45e group
1994 Defender 90
2015 RRS Corris Grey/Black roof
2016 D4 Graphite Santorini Black
2012 D4 XS Orkney Grey
2005 D3 S Maya Gold
Convoy for Heroes 2011
5th Apr 2019 6:02 am
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8221
Very interesting write up and wish you every success and longevity with your new engine and congratulate you on being able to afford to have it repaired, there are people who can’t and should not have to, that pile of snapped cranks makes me wonder about the logic of myself driving round in a £30k time bomb as much as I like it.
I also note that 3 of your injectors where out of specification, this is my theory of what is contributing to the failure of these engines, it’s a pity the injectors cannot be checked with the Iid tool on D4’s like they can on D3’s It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
5th Apr 2019 6:19 am
OvalAutos
Member Since: 28 Dec 2018
Location: Cradley Heath
Posts: 382
Thanks for the review Kev. Always good to get some feedback Joe
5th Apr 2019 6:41 am
knwatkins
Member Since: 19 Sep 2018
Location: Poole, Dorset
Posts: 716
M3DPO wrote:
Very interesting write up and wish you every success and longevity with your new engine and congratulate you on being able to afford to have it repaired, there are people who can’t and should not have to, that pile of snapped cranks makes me wonder about the logic of myself driving round in a £30k time bomb as much as I like it.
I also note that 3 of your injectors where out of specification, this is my theory of what is contributing to the failure of these engines, it’s a pity the injectors cannot be checked with the Iid tool on D4’s like they can on D3’s
Yes, I completely agree with your theory.
And thanks for confirming why I have been tearing my hair out after being unable to locate the injector offset live values in the IID app Kev
MY2014 L405 RR Vogue SE 4.4 SDV8 in Corris Grey
MY2010 L320 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6 in Stornoway Grey
5th Apr 2019 8:10 am
Stevepd
Member Since: 06 Mar 2018
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 392
Great write up and as said having the balls to get it done. I’m not sure I could if it happened to me.
Steve.
5th Apr 2019 8:18 am
Rnclayton
Member Since: 13 Apr 2018
Location: Radstock, Bath
Posts: 564
Thanks for the write up Kev.
Also thanks for the PM's we've been having.
I am in exactly the same boat, and been in contact with Joe. He has given me ballpark figures to think about, while I am still 'discussing' things with JLR.
It is a big decision to make on getting the engine repaired, as it is going to cost anywhere up to 60% value of the car. In my case is it worth it for a 10yo car.MY07 Freelander2 SE Santorini Black - Gone
MY10 D4 XS Buckingham Blue
MY06 D3 HSE
5th Apr 2019 9:23 am
DIY Ace
Member Since: 06 Feb 2019
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 971
Fantastic write-up and insightful. Thank you.
I presume that when assessing the cost of repair you looked at the merits of swapping to another vehicle and decided that the investment was worthwhile. I’m just en route to Bristol Transmission to pick up my £4K D3 having had to spend over £2.5K on a new torque converter and various engine servicing.
I’m not sure that there is a reliable calculation to work out the merits of spending 30%/40%/50%+ of the value on repairing something. Every persons context will be different. For me it was a simple case of working out how much the car might cost over the next couple of years and comparing it to the cost of leasing or financing a newer one. I’ve put £5K aside to get me through the next two years, which is about £200 per month - far less than the cost of a new car. In the event I don’t spend that much then I’m quids-in anyway.
That said I’m already up at just over £3K expenditure after just two months of ownership, so what do I know!?! Hopefully my big budget items are now done and it’s just a case of preventative servicing and the odd replacement part - which I’d be liable for on a newer car anyway.
So I’m delighted to read that you’ve taken the plunge in getting your engine rebuilt. I’m all for keeping cars on the road and not scrapping otherwise great vehicles.2022 BMW i4 M50. Bought Oct 2022. 10,200 miles and counting...
2014 BMW 435d convertible. Bought July 2021. 58,000 miles and counting...
2005 Discovery 3 HSE Auto. Bought Feb 2019. 169,000 miles and counting...
2009 Freelander 2 XS Manual. Bought Sep 2013. SOLD Aug 2021 (already regretted!)
Member Since: 19 Sep 2018
Location: Poole, Dorset
Posts: 716
Richard - I have my fingers crossed for you! Hopefully you will get some joy out of JLR which will set a precedence for others
DIY, yes, it's not an easy decision to make. My bill was approximately 50% of the cars value. Likewise, the to sell the car as a non-runner, I would have got back 50% of the car's value.
If I sold the car as a non-runner for 50% of it's value, I would still have to stump up the other 50% to buy the same again. I appreciate that some may see this as completely crazy, but the reality is that there is no other vehicle out there I want to own. I've had my heart set on owning one of these vehicles for years and admittedly, I'm still in the honeymoon period.
So my options were:
Option 1
Sell the car for 50% of it's value as a non-runner
Stump up the other 50% cash and buy the same again
Option 2
Keep the car and stump up the 50% cash to get it fixed
For me, option 2 was what I chose because I took the view "better the devil you know"
There was also another factor in option 2's favour - if the block and crank were able to be reused, my bill would have been £2k lighter. Unfortunately, this was not the case and it was just bad luck that both my block and crank were scrap.Kev
MY2014 L405 RR Vogue SE 4.4 SDV8 in Corris Grey
MY2010 L320 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6 in Stornoway Grey
5th Apr 2019 11:29 am
DIY Ace
Member Since: 06 Feb 2019
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 971
I agree entirely. Option 2 is a no-brainier. You’re no worse off either way.2022 BMW i4 M50. Bought Oct 2022. 10,200 miles and counting...
2014 BMW 435d convertible. Bought July 2021. 58,000 miles and counting...
2005 Discovery 3 HSE Auto. Bought Feb 2019. 169,000 miles and counting...
2009 Freelander 2 XS Manual. Bought Sep 2013. SOLD Aug 2021 (already regretted!)
Member Since: 28 Dec 2018
Location: Cradley Heath
Posts: 382
Option 2 is always a gamble as the final cost can't be known until the engine is out, stripped down and all elements reported on. Whether they ask or not, we always tell them the worst case scenario (crank, block, injectors & turbos).
If we do undertake the job, we inform the customer at the strip down stage what we think the final bill will be. They can then choose if the want us to proceed or for us to wrap the job up.
I know some companies will brush off the notion of any further costs over the base price by saying the old engine must be serviceable and not explaining what that actually means. Others might be more forward, but not say anything until the end of the job and present the customer with a heart stopping invoice.
Being upfront and honest works for us. Some we win, some we don't.Joe
6th Apr 2019 9:08 am
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10673
thank's for the write up.
interesting your fault is likely to have been down to a poorly reconditioned engine.
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