Member Since: 26 Mar 2007
Location: Chandler's Ford
Posts: 3464
TDV6 Cylinder Balancing Offset Help Please
Evening all,
For a while now, I've been getting sporadic fault codes relating to Cylinder 4 being at Maximum Fuel Trim limit (or was it Minimum?). Have cleared the codes down now but it will return, for sure. Will update the thread with the exact fault code when it returns.
I thought I would take a look at some live values to see what the injectors were doing. This is what I found (at idle):
Click image to enlarge
According to the live values shown from my IIDTool, Cylinder 2 appears to be the problematic one.
There is no particular problem with the car. It maybe feels a bit down on power but there is no black smoke, no lumpy idling, or any other symptoms that make me suspect a fault somewhere.
My D3 is a standard map 2007 (2006MY) TDV6 Manual with ~130k miles from new. It's spent the majority of its life cruising (and crawling) up and down the M3. Full service history, of course.
Any suggestions as to what might be going on here, please?
Thanks in advance,
Steve2021 BMW iX3 Premier Edition in Carbon Black ⚡️🔌
2019 Škoda Kodiaq 2.0 Tdi 190 DSG Sportline in Quartz Grey. Excellent vehicle. Gone.
2017 Discovery Sport HSE Auto in Carpathian Grey and Ebony Leather. Modern JLR Junk. Gone.
2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Manual in Zermatt Silver with Ebony Cloth (143k) Gone, but now patrolling the Asia section of the West Midlands Safari Park!
31st Oct 2015 8:54 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20863
Generally, it's the injectors with higher values that are at fault, I.E Cyl 6
You will also get injector restricted codes in the colder weather, if you have a few inop glow plugs accompanied by tired injectorsMy D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 26 Mar 2007
Location: Chandler's Ford
Posts: 3464
Thanks, both.
So, the Cylinder 4 fault code would correspond with the rather low reading from Injector 2. Although Mike seems to imply that Injector 6 may be more at fault?
I'm in no hurry to do anything about this at the moment. I expect, as the weather gets colder, that idling will become lumpy and starting will become more difficult (especially with a few glow plugs down).
Out of interest, where is the best place to buy new (reconditioned?) injectors from at the moment, please?
Is it worth going for reconditioned or best to go for new ones?
Thanks,
Steve2021 BMW iX3 Premier Edition in Carbon Black ⚡️🔌
2019 Škoda Kodiaq 2.0 Tdi 190 DSG Sportline in Quartz Grey. Excellent vehicle. Gone.
2017 Discovery Sport HSE Auto in Carpathian Grey and Ebony Leather. Modern JLR Junk. Gone.
2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Manual in Zermatt Silver with Ebony Cloth (143k) Gone, but now patrolling the Asia section of the West Midlands Safari Park!
31st Oct 2015 9:44 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20863
IME, I have never had an actual restricted injector. There is an issue with another injector over fuelling, or can't be controlled correctly, or dodgy spray pattern, and the PCM backs off fuelling on the corresponding injector to keep the engine idling as smooth as possibleMy D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 23 Jul 2011
Location: County Antrim
Posts: 3345
I had a similar issue and ended up changing 3 injectors. It was effecting fuel economy at the end up and I had to get them replaced.
Fuel economy returned a long with smoother idle and better acceleration. I replaced them with genuine 2nd hand VDO injectors. £180 for 3, new prices are stupid compared to similar injectors for other manufacturers.
31st Oct 2015 11:38 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8246
Disco_Mikey wrote:
IME, I have never had an actual restricted injector. There is an issue with another injector over fuelling, or can't be controlled correctly, or dodgy spray pattern, and the PCM backs off fuelling on the corresponding injector to keep the engine idling as smooth as possible
To confuse the issue further I assume that is in firing order and not injector number order!It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
The injectors are numbered in firing order. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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1st Nov 2015 8:54 am
Woolmeister
Member Since: 26 Mar 2007
Location: Chandler's Ford
Posts: 3464
The fault code is back and, unsurprisingly, it's of the "P02A7 Cylinder 4 balance - fuel trim at minimum limit" variety.
This tallies with the low reading from Injector 2.
I'll keep an eye on it and have a chat with my ever-reliable indy - West 4x4 - if it develops further.
My immediate hunch is that Injectors 6 and 3 could probably do with replacing.
Steve2021 BMW iX3 Premier Edition in Carbon Black ⚡️🔌
2019 Škoda Kodiaq 2.0 Tdi 190 DSG Sportline in Quartz Grey. Excellent vehicle. Gone.
2017 Discovery Sport HSE Auto in Carpathian Grey and Ebony Leather. Modern JLR Junk. Gone.
2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Manual in Zermatt Silver with Ebony Cloth (143k) Gone, but now patrolling the Asia section of the West Midlands Safari Park!
1st Nov 2015 4:31 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20863
At this point, I would only replace injector 6
You need to be aware that after replacing, and the PCM re-adapting, the high reading may move to another injectorMy D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 26 Mar 2007
Location: Chandler's Ford
Posts: 3464
So, here's the thing...
Let's say for a moment that I don't have an IIDTool and I had no clue that various injector fault codes are being logged and my fuel trim is at maximum/minimum limit on various cylinders.
My D3 is not showing any signs of a problem. No black smoke. No noticeable drop in fuel economy. No particular issues with performance.
What will happen if I leave this problem alone? Pretty much every post I read on here - where folks have replaced one or two injectors - just seem to keep chasing the problem round to the next injector, and to the next, and so on until they've eventually replaced all 6.
I don't want to start changing injectors and end-up with an even bigger problem on my hands.
Just as an update to my original problem, I now seem to have 3 injectors all running at ~1390 but still no noticeable problems when driving the car. No smoke. No drop in economy. Nothing.
So, what's going on here? Why would I suddenly go from relatively normal values to three injectors running at ~1390 or so?
I'm inclined to not do anything about it. But I would like to understand what is going on here.
Steve2021 BMW iX3 Premier Edition in Carbon Black ⚡️🔌
2019 Škoda Kodiaq 2.0 Tdi 190 DSG Sportline in Quartz Grey. Excellent vehicle. Gone.
2017 Discovery Sport HSE Auto in Carpathian Grey and Ebony Leather. Modern JLR Junk. Gone.
2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Manual in Zermatt Silver with Ebony Cloth (143k) Gone, but now patrolling the Asia section of the West Midlands Safari Park!
11th Nov 2015 4:29 pm
Beno2
Member Since: 18 Apr 2009
Location: SE
Posts: 996
Hi Woolmeister
This to me would be a good reason not to have a IID Tool. I know there are worth there wait in gold but you would always feel the need to plug it in.........
Pro,s and Con,s really what you don,t see you don,t worry... D3 HSE
11th Nov 2015 7:19 pm
Woolmeister
Member Since: 26 Mar 2007
Location: Chandler's Ford
Posts: 3464
Indeed.
My post was not intended to belittle the value of the IIDTool; It really is a wonderful thing, backed-up with outstanding support (thank you, Patrick) and has helped me - and other forum members - out on numerous occasions. One of the best investments I have made in my D3.
My question was more, "What is the worst that could happen if I leave this fault to develop noticeable symptoms?". I've heard horror stories of holes being blown in pistons due to increased combustion temperatures caused by over-fuelling.
I'm quite prepared to leave it and see how it develops whilst I have no noticeable symptoms. Am I risking further damage to anything in the meantime?
Steve2021 BMW iX3 Premier Edition in Carbon Black ⚡️🔌
2019 Škoda Kodiaq 2.0 Tdi 190 DSG Sportline in Quartz Grey. Excellent vehicle. Gone.
2017 Discovery Sport HSE Auto in Carpathian Grey and Ebony Leather. Modern JLR Junk. Gone.
2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Manual in Zermatt Silver with Ebony Cloth (143k) Gone, but now patrolling the Asia section of the West Midlands Safari Park!
11th Nov 2015 7:43 pm
Beno2
Member Since: 18 Apr 2009
Location: SE
Posts: 996
.........
Forgot to add...... I would get one because when you have one of these vehicles you need all the help you can get as well as all the great support you get from this site..... D3 HSE
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Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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