Member Since: 10 Sep 2011
Location: gloucester
Posts: 685
why is the faultmate much dearer than the IID.
25th Oct 2012 6:51 pm
J@mes
Member Since: 10 Nov 2008
Location: Bomber County
Posts: 4547
Because it does a lot more. You'd have to have a look at the relevant websites to see what though.2014 D4 XS
2005 D3 SE - Gone
25th Oct 2012 6:57 pm
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Hiya Robbie
Quote:
Not sure why Colin has such a downer on the Hawkeye.
I don't have a downer on the Hawkeye, in fact i totally respect it for the fact this it is the only system i believe has been self developed. Ie something that would have become availiable if BBS did not exist.
It does have many vehicular access and functional limitations though, but in some cases does fit the bill and i have recommended it several times including one this last week or so.
My only gripe is in its marketing not revealing the limitations of vehiclular access it has and i just think it is professionally immoral to hide the real cost of buying something, such that those trying to compare like for like costs between systems are misled. Recently someone on a thread here quoted buying the "D3 Kit" from Green lanes on Ebay as being an all inclusive kit. Nothing on the listing suggests it is not all you need, so i asked them the question
Quote:
Dear green-lanes,
regarding the statement in your listing
"The kit is supplied with a standard J1962 cable. Optional cables may be required for specific systems, please contact us for details."
I require a unit to cover all possible systems in a discovery 3 and understand that the unit you list will come with the J1962 (BA 5071) that covers some systems but i will need to also purchase Black (BA 5080) to cover some other systems on this vehicle that is not included. can you confirm this and give me a price for that if required.
Also i understand that to upgrade the software of the Hawkeye i need to also purchase an upgrade lead and possibly a power supply. Can you also confirm this and give me a price for this too.
Many thanks
and my reply
Quote:
Hello
The prices for the extra parts are as follows:
BA 5080 - £34.99
Update Cable - £25.99
Power Cable - £27.99
Regards
- green-lanes
So you see for yourself i really am not making this aspect up and the worst part is that in not revealing this additional requirement at initial purchase time, even buyers willing to pay this extra cost will face additional shipping costs also.
In respect of comparing other equipment on a cost basis as like for like against other equipment, you can really only include equipment with similar functionality and display capability. In this case our Faulmate FCR. The FCR's current functionality may be limited, but we are sure that Genesis will shortly change this. We have after all been around and held the crown for nearly 20 years now and we will not easily give it up
Our MSV-2 equipment is clearly in a whole different catagory, and even then our MSV-2 owners have already seen huge additions to their capability with much more to come shortly.
Warmest Regards
Colin
28th Oct 2012 5:24 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Hi Colin, good to hear from you.
I think my point is that the Hawkeye D3 kit had everything I need. I don't need an upgrade cable, I don't need a power cable and the extra dongle needed for the D3 came with the kit.
Given its simplistic plug and play capabilities software updates for the Hawkeye are few and far between. Early adopters who purchased before V5 simply sent the unit back for the upgrade rather than spending nearly £60 on cables. I can see why you would want such extras but for us mortals I am glad the box is not stuffed with extras that most of us will never use.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Quote:
Hi Colin, good to hear from you.
Indeed, and therein already lies a very interesting and value added aspect.
Forums are a really great filtering tool. Certainly no company would survive on one for very long if they had anything to hide or did not meet up with any promises or deliver to or exceed expectations. Yet here i am.
I am seriously not wanting to do anything beyond raising my origional point about the Hawkeye not making it obvious that additional purchases are required to make it natively comparible to what you get included with the likes of an FCR and specifically answering your question as to why i have a downer on it .
If the system comes with everything, as you state, then why are green-lanes now quoting me for 3 additional items ?
Already you are stating that owners have but 2 choices to upgrade their hawkeye units, either pay £60 on additional cables or pay to send the unit back to the owners and then back to them every time.
If those were the only options that BBS provided with our equipment i would hope that every owner and investor would publically slag the bejesus out of me as the owner and chase me off this forum forever.
and therin lies Just my thoughts also
28th Oct 2012 6:38 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Hey Colin , nobody would suggest that you or your products fail to live up to expectations. I'm just offering my opinion as one was sought. If anyone was asking about the MSV I would be showering roses in your path. If the question was set a while back regarding the FCR I would be in similar praise. If anyone asked about quality or support then I would be needed a florist on call with my strong opinion regarding you and the excellence you strive for. However, as a straight point in fact no V5.0 Hawkeye user has ever needed to buy upgrade components or send the unit back. As a result I would not advise any potential Hawkeye user to buy extras that are just not needed.
But back to the original question and my opinion, hopefully informed, is just that. For a typical D3 spanner operator the FCR was where it was at, then the Hawkeye appeared albeit hesitantly at first, then a slightly disappointing IID Tool followed to be upgraded into a pretty serious product with the release of V2.17.
Time moves on, hence why this happy Hawkeye user is suggesting that people look long and hard at the IID Tool if on a budget and your excellent MSV if looking at the premium end.
And I still think you are wonderful.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Hiya Robbie
There is nothing better than a good debate on any matter IMHO
I joined this forum initially for valuable input and opinion, even just criticism is
of such value.
As such i do respect your comments and input.
Re the Hawkeyes situation, i have clearly proved that i was not making this extra lead
element up and i still think it is wrong to suggest that it's costs can be compared
like for like against a system that has no additional costs for adding an upgrade
lead etc based soley on the current version currently seeming stable. We have had
to fix some things years after they were introduced and i think it vital to include
the ability for owners to upgrade any equipment. Iphone owners for example would not
be happy to learn that in order to upgrade their phones they need to spend and extra
50 Quid on a lead or send their phones back to Apple.
In addition the extra options also included a lead BA5080 that was required to
access some systems the Hawkeye lists as covered. Even then and in accepting that
owners would need to physically switch between leads on a Hawkeye where one lead
does it all on any BBS system, there are vast numbers of ECU's that are simply not
covered by a Hawkeye at all. These may later be added but then we would just be
proving the update lead requirement.
If for example you need to diagnose a problem with the Infotainment and just wanted
to read the fault codes for a clue, the Hawkeye just does not cover any of these
systems.
Like i said, i have a huge repect for the Hawkeye, as at least it was self
developed, which explains it's lack of capability and happily recommend it where
appropriate. I just wish it was more honestly marketed and these extra costs not so
hidden.
I truly believe that if BBS had never existed, the Hawkeye would be the only option
currently available to owners outside the dealer equipment.
Regards other equipment
Time does indeed move on and has done for the last 20 Years that we have been the leader in this market we have always stayed one step ahead of the market with ever more and more innovative stuff. Am i the only one to ever remember the time that there was nothing but dealer equiment and no one had even heard of the CCF?
In respect of our existing systems owners and supporters, we have attempted to hold off Introducing new aspects as long as we can, but one by one they are now appreciating and accepting that change is inevitable and that we are being forced to make changes we would rather not.
Used it recently on a 2800m RT from WA to AZ. It's small enough that it takes up hardly any space in the glove box. Used it to check on 2 check engine lights during the trip and clear errors. Currently using it to diagnose cruise control issues and suspension issue. Well worth the $. I guess, on a side note; if your cruise control buttons are not working properly, then you can't access the IIDTool programming.. 2005 Zambezi V8 SE
Also if you have more than 1 LR product (e.g. D3 & FFRR like I used to have or 2 x D3) then the only way forward is the Hawkeye
I sent mine off to Omitech (IIRC?) and got next day turnaround when it was upgraded for free to V.5 software. Great service especially seeing as I don't need it regularly.
My two-penneth Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Defender 110 XS
10th Jan 2013 7:35 pm
Bob.
Member Since: 05 Apr 2009
Location: 52�N 2�W
Posts: 94
If I understand the IIDTool makers policy correctly, although the first time you use the device it locks to that vehicle's VIN, you can buy additional licences (about £75 IIRC) to add further vehicles. Perhaps Steve at GAP could clarify that and whether you can mix vehicle types when buying additional licences for one IIDTool.
Trouble is you can only carry it in the glove box of one vehicle at a time.
10th Jan 2013 7:58 pm
SteveMfr Site Sponsor
Member Since: 11 Jan 2011
Location: Strasbourg
Posts: 200
The cruise switchgear is not really an issue. Bad switchgear is very rare and we have the possibility of providing alternate controls if anyone is really stuck in a tight spot (Turn signal up and down for + and -, etc). And we will have a new alternative interface in the coming months...
Bob, Piecost is right. We can not mix vehicle types on one IIDTool simply because there is not enough memory - and the firmware is different for every vehicle type. That is why there is even a separate IIDTool for the 02-05 RR L322 and for the 07-09 (and the 10-12 is coming soon too ). You can use one tool if you have a pre 2010 RRS and a D3 or a post 2010 RRS and D4. Same firmware. Additional VIN unlock codes are available for no too much.
I did want to mention the price difference that J@mes addressed above: yes the Faultmate can do more but in terms of functionality the IIDTool is much closer to the MSV than it is to the Hawkeye. The reason we can offer the IIDTool as inexpensively as we do is because we specifically looked for a high volume distributor so that we could sell more units and keep the price low (and we concentrated on keeping hardware costs low as well). Otherwise our prices would be much closer to the MSV's than to the Hawkeye's. Software development takes a lot of time. And time is money... www.gap-diagnostic.com
Last edited by SteveMfr on 11th Jan 2013 3:40 pm. Edited 6 times in total
10th Jan 2013 8:58 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Steve, up to what MY are your tools supporting (I am just about to get an MY13 Disco 4)?Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 11 Jan 2011
Location: Strasbourg
Posts: 200
Hi Robbie,
The D4 IIDTool covers up to the very latest models - so no problem. If you'd like one immediately, you can join the beta tester program and order directly from us (shoot us a mail to support at Gap-Diagnostic dot com). Otherwise you'll have to wait for the retail units to reach the vendors - prob around the end of March.
Steve www.gap-diagnostic.com
11th Jan 2013 8:17 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Thanks Steve.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 17 Apr 2012
Location: London
Posts: 425
Just to add another datapoint into the mix...I've had access to the Beta IIDTool firmware, and it's very impressive. Some of the really useful features (from my personal point of view) have been:
- one button scan of all faults in all modules
- full diagnostics of the FBH -- the IIDTool ran the full smokey purge cycle on my FBH and cured it of its problems, it worked flawlessly during my recent two week skiing holiday in the Alps
- the ability to switch things off and on in real time. E.g. When diagnosing the FBH, I was able to individually turn on and off the water pump, the fuel pump, etc. same goes for other modules.
- much extended live values display. Display almost anything live on the dash. Can leave it displaying constantly if you are trying to debug a longer term or rare problem.
All in all the new firmware is yet another Great Leap Forward for the IIDTool
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
). You can use one tool if you have a pre 2010 RRS and a D3 or a post 2010 RRS and D4. Same firmware. Additional VIN unlock codes are available for no too much.
