The trouble with the linked experiment that keeps popping up, is that, and this is not aimed at anyone, the sceptics jump to quote it as "real evidence" just because it's been done in a controlled environment at a research centre, but we musn't forget, it is only one experiment, on one type of engine with one type of injector, running for only 16 hours and we have potential bias to consider also.
In contrast, we have many thousands of miles driven by users in many differen't engines. This get's wrongly eschewed because it doesn't appear as a scientifict test but it is just as vaulable evidence. Now, I am not saying that the experiment was inaccurate, but, it is far, far less conclusive than the evidence we already have that 2SO does work, at least in some engines.
As for the adverse effects, the situation is very unclear. It's much harder to measure that in the real world, so the large volume of anecdotal evidence is not worth much, but again the experiment is so lacking in substance that it is also pretty much worthless.
Result: We have a test that claims 2SO doesn't provide any benefit, but we have a much much larger sample to suggest it can. We have virtually no evidence that it does or doesn't cause harm. We are none the wiser IMO.
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22nd Mar 2016 2:16 pm
AJXX
Member Since: 13 Mar 2016
Location: Manchester
Posts: 18
^^^
Well said Lost for Words (might want to re-consider that username!)
The sample size of people saying they've seen tangible benefits (noise, performance, etc...) far outweighs the so called 'scientific' data suggesting this will cause 'harm'.
The results obviously do vary car to car but overall there are far more people reporting benefits than those claiming it'll damage the car, and those claiming it'll damage the car are basing this on dubious data in the first place.
22nd Mar 2016 4:36 pm
.olli.
Member Since: 17 Dec 2015
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 83
Shame that the only study was commissioned by a company in the fuels and chemicals business. Bound to be biased in some way
22nd Mar 2016 8:37 pm
AJXX
Member Since: 13 Mar 2016
Location: Manchester
Posts: 18
Just a quick update from me after some careful MPG monitoring for the last few weeks.
I've seen a rise from an average of ~23 MPG to around 25.5 MPG. So small increase.
Engine noise has continued to deteriorate, very satisfied on that front.
Engine still seems to be starting better (I've got cold start problems likely due to Glowplugs).
Not had any negative effects so far and I've been running a full tank mixed with 800 ml of 2SO for the last few tank fulls (as suggested on another forum) to speed up the effects. Dropped down to 450 ml per tank now but not lost any of the above benefits.
Overall still very happy 2SO user.
13th Apr 2016 9:07 pm
kirkyworld
Member Since: 01 Mar 2016
Location: Northampton
Posts: 566
This oil is what I use in both my Puma powered Transit, Discovery 2 and shortly D4. It is Jaso-FB, mineral based and works out at less than £2 a litre. Can anyone see a reason why I shouldn't use it in my MY16 D4?
Member Since: 25 Apr 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 197
Yes! As you have a DPF on your MY16 D4 you should be using a JASO FC oil.
JASO FB is good for non-DPF carsFFRR Westminster TDV8
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19th Apr 2016 8:24 am
SteveyB
Member Since: 22 Jan 2016
Location: Livingston
Posts: 47
What is the difference between using 2 stroke oil and using a product like Millers Diesel Ecomax that is specifically designed for use in Diesel. Is there a technical advantage of one over the other or is it simply down to cost 2007 HSE - 96k miles
New belts + tensioners.
V8 Brake upgrade.
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19th Apr 2016 10:36 am
LandPhil
Member Since: 25 Apr 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 197
Read the thread at the link above, it will only take a week or so and then you will be able to come to your own conclusions. When you have read it there will be a test FFRR Westminster TDV8
D4 HSE MY12 Aintree Green. Great car
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The sum total of what's in there is you may gain some mpg by using TSO.....maybe
Other benefits such as smoother running, less noise, better starting (?) etc are a bit subjective & in comparison with what ?
But the big but to me is
The possibility of damage to injectors & other bits in your engine.....either short term or long term...the result of the damage that has to be repaired at cost to you....dead money....money that you don't need to spend, that could be spent on many & significant other things.....all in the pursuit of a paltry increase in mpg or intangible benefits that only you can surmise.
So what's the point ?
If you read somewhere (that you trusted ????) that you shouldn't use TSO you can't turn the clock back...damage done money wasted on buying the TSO & fixing issues.
Besides wasting hard earned ca$h you run the risk of not having your D3/4 to use.BREXIT - done properly.
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19th Apr 2016 9:35 pm
kirkyworld
Member Since: 01 Mar 2016
Location: Northampton
Posts: 566
This seems a great buy? 20 litres of JASO Fc for £42 that's about 2.10 a litre.
If you bought this & you used it over many tanks of fuel....
Does the increased mpg saving pay for the purchase of the TSO ?
Do you actually gain £'s wise ?BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
19th Apr 2016 10:08 pm
kirkyworld
Member Since: 01 Mar 2016
Location: Northampton
Posts: 566
To be honest I think the saving comes in the longevity of the mechanical parts. 2 of my other cars run on 2so and the difference in drive is very noticeable. I have no idea if it improves the mpg as I do not do enough miles a year to worry. But the smoothness and more quiet engine is worth the 70p a tank?
19th Apr 2016 10:34 pm
Dave T
Member Since: 03 Jul 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 6902
Can't say my engine is noisy.
I choose not to use it as there is not enough hard evidence for the benefits and enough against to put doubt in my mind over potential damage that it may cause.Joined the BMWX5 45e group
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20th Apr 2016 5:37 am
SteveyB
Member Since: 22 Jan 2016
Location: Livingston
Posts: 47
Starting point for me is "first do no harm".... I'm not particualrly interested in marginal mpg gains as I don't do enough mileage to benefit from that. What I am interested in is looking after my engine the best way I possibly can. After spending many hours reading all the comments here and the many articles on the internet concerning both 2SO and propriority diesel additives quite frankly I'm still non the wiser. For every claim there seems to be a counter claim. 2007 HSE - 96k miles
New belts + tensioners.
V8 Brake upgrade.
EGR blank and remap.
Autobox flushed +new filter.
Diffs and trans box oil changed.
Last edited by SteveyB on 20th Apr 2016 11:22 am. Edited 1 time in total
20th Apr 2016 9:26 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
That's the way it should be - if in doubt don't use it.
It took years before I became a convert and I still regard proprietary additives as snake-oil; at least for UK diesel. 2sO is different though, perhaps because it only seeks to add what the nanny-state removed through legislation.
There are numerous research papers on the negative impact on the engine associated with low sulfur diesel and the efforts of the diesel blenders to recover the lost lubricity with additives that have to be sulfur free.
Adding a low ash / high sulfur 2sO increases the diesel's lubricity and produces a cleaner burn. Seeing the difference in engine internals with and without 2sO clinched it. As an aside it also makes for a cleaner burn in the FBH too.
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Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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