Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
Catastrophic failures of TDV6 engines in South Africa
Hi guys and gals
here in sunny but currently not so warm South Africa we have had a spate of major TDv6 engine failures. They can be grouped into two distinct categories:
1. Big end bearing failures, mainly on No. 3 and 4 big ends. Some with and some without snapped conrods. Here we are looking at between 3 - 6 occurrences per month ranging from 80'000km to 190'000km
2. Melted piston mainly on No 6 cylinder (right bank rear cylinder). There are currently six such failures being repared in SA that I know of. It is always only the one cylinder that is affected.
From the pictures it is quite obvious, that the damage resulted from severe overfuelling, also ridges in the sleeves.
I have attached two pictures.
Now my question:
Has this been observed in the UK and has a possible cause of failure been identified. In all these cases, injectors were checked and found to be in tolerance.
This leads me to believe one of the probable causes for these failures could be electronic malfunction.
I would be glad if we could have some feedback on this.
Kind regards from a very cold highveld winter's morning.
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
Unaffected cylinders from the same bank.
Click image to enlarge
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with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
Last edited by hgbosch on 5th Jun 2012 10:19 pm. Edited 1 time in total
5th Jun 2012 7:14 am
KOOS BEST
Member Since: 14 Feb 2010
Location: Mtunzini
Posts: 122
Hi George, do we know what all this vehicles oil change intervals were, 24000 vs 12000 km ?
5th Jun 2012 7:02 pm
hgbosch
Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
in the case of the bearing failures, these were caused due to sludge build up in the oil channels between main and big end bearings in the crankshafts.
We can deduct that some 24'000km service intervals in an engine's life contributed to this. Another contributing factor in some failures was the use of thicker oils, such as 20W50, on some vehicles, that were out of service/motor plan and serviced by non LR-experienced workshops. But in general oil service intervals were stretched out too long.
As far as the molten piston is concerned. the other pistons and sleeves were in perfect condition. The engine with the pistons shown in the pics was serviced every 10'000km for the last 2 years, service history before that I have no info on.
This specific engine was also run with a healthy 2sO diet, which is manifested by the absolute lack of carbon deposits on piston crown and head (check the piston manufacturing data on the healthy piston).
My take on this molten piston failure is an electronic malfunction, that let the injector remain open for too long and resulting in excessive over fuelling. This could have been caused by a fault in the injector harness or another electronic malfunction.EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
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with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
5th Jun 2012 8:55 pm
01coccobet
Member Since: 23 Feb 2009
Location: on air
Posts: 2624
any roughtness experienced in the meanwhile?!?
like missfire or loss of power?
anyway it sounds like an interesting investigation
I'll let you know if there is something in the italian board figuring it out!!!!
the best feeling:getting airborne.
5th Jun 2012 9:43 pm
hgbosch
Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
I am specifically interested in similar occurrances of the molten piston mishap. The bearing failure issue is well documented.
I sincerely hope, to hear from fellow forum members who might shed some light onto this one EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT
with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
5th Jun 2012 9:52 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Do you have any pictures of the failed piston removed from the block (inc skirt and rings)?
Not sure it is fuelling, but I can see where you are coming from.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 24 Dec 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 138
Just a possibility, but were these engines chiped?
As I understand it some chip reprograms simply allow more fuel in than the standard settings with longer injector opening times.
A potential formula for localised overheating in a diesel.
Regards
Barryp2017 Range Rover Sport TDV6 L494 Fuji White
2011 Range Rover Sport SDV6 L320 Fuji White Loved but GONE
2010 TRAKKA Motorhome Fiat Ducato GONE (What a dud, don't buy one)
2006 Discovery 3 SE TDV6 Automatic Chawton White/Ebony. Loved but GONE
2006 BMW X5 diesel White/Charcoal, Bought new, gone after 12 years! Excellent vehicle.
Ex Member Range Rover Club NSW
5th Jun 2012 10:01 pm
hgbosch
Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
Robbie wrote:
Do you have any pictures of the failed piston removed from the block (inc skirt and rings)?
Not sure it is fuelling, but I can see where you are coming from.
Hi Robbie
no not yet. The engine hasn't been stripped further, waiting for assessor. Once it is stripped, I will post pictures of the pistons and also of the cylinder liner.
Hi barryp
no this unit was not chipped. I don't believe in chipping in any case. As you quite correctly stated, it is a recipe for desaster.
Our D3 TDV6 is remapped, and fuel consumption is phenomenal, a sure sign that overfuelling is not happening, i.e. on 400km trip 9.3lt/100km or 5000km holiday trip fully loaded with 1000km urban travel included 10.0lt/100km. EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT
with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
5th Jun 2012 10:11 pm
KOOS BEST
Member Since: 14 Feb 2010
Location: Mtunzini
Posts: 122
Robbie wrote:
Do you have any pictures of the failed piston removed from the block (inc skirt and rings)?
Not sure it is fuelling, but I can see where you are coming from.
Hi Robbie, why would you say that you dont think it's fuelling?
Injector fault?
ECU fault?
What were the cause?
6th Jun 2012 7:12 am
01coccobet
Member Since: 23 Feb 2009
Location: on air
Posts: 2624
mine is a year and a half entering and leaving from assistance, the d3 I had before now and' a friend of mine says that it 'a watch. I submit that haunts me the trouble by 2010, every so often (at will) at 2,200 rpm, about 130 kmh start to go to more strokes and 'increase the speed' more 'become strong tug from the engine, it seems that some the engine off and turn on at will. to 5 times, and 'was in service (praise) are the normal routine check, but since the diagnosis is not by any fault they do not know what to do, when I state that the car does not turn on no lights sobbing on the dashboard. The remedy for this problem and when I happen to pull for about ten km marches to limatatore, with consequence risk fines, license points and consumption crazy. The car has 30,000 km and is' kept in splendid condition (I'm a freak) what to do??????figuring it out!!!!
the best feeling:getting airborne.
6th Jun 2012 7:47 am
01coccobet
Member Since: 23 Feb 2009
Location: on air
Posts: 2624
it's a D4 thoug figuring it out!!!!
the best feeling:getting airborne.
6th Jun 2012 7:48 am
Morgis
Member Since: 18 Feb 2012
Location: Kristiansand
Posts: 274
would a little two-stroke oil in the gastank solve alittlebit of this smud problem? - My 2006 D3 HSE PP
6th Jun 2012 10:26 am
hgbosch
Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
this engine was run on the "Muti", which is evident from the complete lack of carbon deposits on the healthy pistons.
I am of the firm oppinion, that this failure was caused by over fuelling on cyl no. 6.. We are now waiting for the engine to be torn down, then we can see further.EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT
with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
6th Jun 2012 12:17 pm
D4JWW
Member Since: 20 Oct 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1318
George is this your D3's engine? I thought Farming mielies is a gamble but owning a D3, with this and tensioner mount failure its cheaper to play the lotto in definite, , or is this normal stats for the amount of D3/4 produced? your pics look very similar to this: http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic41094.h...ston%5C%22A few mods... and keeping it all running...Faultmate MSV2
MY09EGR's blanked Thanks Bellautos, BAS
6th Jun 2012 5:30 pm
hgbosch
Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
no it is not mine, I am just helping a friend getting to the bottom of this one. Thanks very much for that link. It is extremely helpful!
Our D3 TDV6 is now on 180'000km, running on the prescribed 0W30 fully synthetic oil (LiquiMoly), treated with Poly-TFE for prevention of the dreaded bearing failure and getting "high" on a healthy dose of Sasol 2sO (Jaso-FC). It purrs like a kitten.
Click image to enlarge
Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT
with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
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