Member Since: 11 May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 6415
Paul
the law isn't clear as have found no direct sentence saying it has to be strictly winter rubber and as I mention M+S or snowflake like on winter tyres
but unclear law is easy to interpret for coppers
waiting for the replay from German authorities on that matter
17th Nov 2010 11:48 am
PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE AutoBuckingham Blue 2007 Golf GT DSG
17th Nov 2010 11:49 am
grzesiul
Member Since: 11 May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 6415
In his statement Peter Ramsauer said, “we are now introducing a concrete version (of winter tyre requirements) into legislative procedure and, with this, certainty of law for our roads… we are defining what will be deemed a winter tyre in the future.â€
This new section set to be added to the highway code in Germany states that motorists must have tyres fitted to their car – whether it is all-season or winter - which have the symbol M&S on their sidewall.
the law isn't clear as have found no direct sentence saying it has to be strictly winter rubber and as I mention M+S or snowflake like on winter tyres
but unclear law is easy to interpret for coppers
the law is clear in that you need winter tyres. Based on your findings, it seems not to be clear as to what designates a "winter" tyre in terms of legislation - i.e. one with M+S / snowflake.
They are not true winter tyres (a winter tyre will be clearly marked as such, usually even in the model name) but you may have hit upon an unclarified point in the law when it comes to M+S etc
Either way - winter tyres are better than M+S even in light snow falling on roads be they in the hills or in a city. And even if you are driving a D3
(Can't wait for winter 2011 so we can debate this all again... )The next American ex-pat that calls it a "truck" is going to find out what 2.7 tons feels like on their foot...
Club "yes, I too have had the EGR's replaced..."
Club "yes, I too have had the compressor replaced..."
Club "yes, I too once had the car at the dealer for a couple of weeksnearly 4 weeksover 4 weeks...5 weeks"
Club "yes, I too have had EPB failure..."
Club "yes, I too get mysterious bings and bongs..."
17th Nov 2010 12:18 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73134
Two bits of advice:
Buy winters & no fines
Or
Stick with M&S and keep the money you have saved for potential fines
Choices, choices!
Roll on next summer!
17th Nov 2010 12:22 pm
grzesiul
Member Since: 11 May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 6415
as minister said all season or winter so it is pretty clear
now
17th Nov 2010 12:26 pm
Ted Newman
Member Since: 09 Oct 2010
Location: SE London
Posts: 840
The following is a reply from the German Tourist Office :-
Dear Ted,
thanks for your email. It is true that the new legislation making
winter tyres mandatory has not yet come into effect. It was supposed to
be through by November by at the moment they are still arguing over
exact terms and definitions, so we think it unlikely to come into force
this winter.
Best regards,
Ulrike Wessollek
Information & Administration Officer
German National Tourist Office
PO Box 2695
London W1A 3TNLR Discovery 4 XS pulling an Airstream 532 Caravan also own (since new) a 1996 MGF
17th Nov 2010 3:50 pm
J@mes
Member Since: 10 Nov 2008
Location: Bomber County
Posts: 4547
So it will be coming, but they haven't decided what is going to constitute a winter tyre.
[stereotype]I thought they were meant to be efficient? [/stereotype]2014 D4 XS
2005 D3 SE - Gone
17th Nov 2010 4:05 pm
Ted Newman
Member Since: 09 Oct 2010
Location: SE London
Posts: 840
Yes they are efficient BUT also pedantic so they make sure there is no way the new law will be ambiguous
Then we have to see how this fits with EU laws that states "Any vehicle that is legal in a EU country of registration must be accepted as legal by all member states" Obviously there are exceptions where the difference can easily be rectified - such as UK dipping headlights changed with either deflectors or mechanical switches - but all wheels to be changed - that is very problematical. I guess we shall just have to wait and see LR Discovery 4 XS pulling an Airstream 532 Caravan also own (since new) a 1996 MGF
17th Nov 2010 4:23 pm
AJS4X4
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3224
Well done Ted.
Some of those words are a bit differcult for me as my schooling was not good.
Andy, a quick rummage in the NoDo$h translation device suggests:
"Businessman say: Now would be a good time to sell the benefits of a winter tyre for winter and an ATR or road tyre for the other three season"
ATRs were very competent on Glynne's car last winter alongside me with my Conti Winter Contacts. Worked very well on a steep hill of compressed snow (making like 3" of sheet ice), both towing family-size cars. Given the overall similarity in tread pattern and assuming a broadly similar compound, no reason the GGATs won't match them.
Still swapping over to my winter rims this weekend and resting the ATRs though I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
17th Nov 2010 6:26 pm
discocuzzy
Member Since: 02 Feb 2008
Location: surrey
Posts: 2752
I lived in Germany for 10 years and loved it, my grandad however wasnt so keen...he only visited twice back in 43...never stopped though "you cannot teach stupid people to do clever things"
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05 plate D3 HSE in Zermat- Gone
11 Plate D4 Landmark in Fuji white- Gone
08 Plate D3 Hse in Buckingham Blue- Gone
58 plate D3 HSE Silver- Gone
10 Plate D4 HSE Stornaway Grey
17th Nov 2010 11:28 pm
MacLeod 313
Member Since: 18 Apr 2008
Location: away
Posts: 10723
17th Nov 2010 11:40 pm
ad15
Member Since: 14 Dec 2008
Location: up that tree
Posts: 4866
grzesiul wrote:
question was from legal point of view but found no reference in me search to any straight answer from German authorities web sites
Ken - I survived not one winter on non winter tires still alive it is up to skills and having brains when driving on snow and ice but agree different compound does make slight difference
ATR are mud and snow rubber so from legal poit of view I should be covered Ihope
cheers all
i'd say the difference between having traction,, and NOT having traction is more than a "slight difference"...
winter tyres rock,, they're like the iphone,, until you use them you just dont get it...one wife.......livid
18th Nov 2010 12:47 am
NJF
Member Since: 05 Oct 2007
Location: Gone
Posts: 2466
Winter tyres are easy to recognise:
As for interpreting EU law, it's never likely to be as simple as it seems. I guess that the paragraph above referred to vehicle homogolation and type approval, not to seasonal tyres. However, I don't know and it's all moot for me because I use winter tyres. I recommend them to you.
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