Flack
Member Since: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Preston Lancashire
Posts: 6307
  
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Like I said earlier the Oil pump casing is not up to the job as these posts on here testify, I am doing my own car in the next few weeks and I am definitely changing the plate..
I think this fault now needs escalating to LR as there are enough failings now for them not hide there heads in the sand..
Flack 
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 10th Jun 2012 10:41 pm |
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chalky
Member Since: 21 Aug 2008
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 3145
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OH !
Forgot to mention 57 Plate 08 MY !
I know it states that its NOT just specific to this batch but it appears that most are in this bracket ? Only dead fish go with the Flow !
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| 10th Jun 2012 10:42 pm |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26770
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There are not many common factors.
Seems to be mainly 2007 cars, but some as early as 2004
Some happen very soon after cam belt change, others before the belts are changed.
All seem to be failing with exactly the same failure point, and from the pictures posted, its a very consistent failure pattern.
I've not heard of anyone having this failure, and not needing a new engine 
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| 10th Jun 2012 10:46 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
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I've popped a poll up to see if there is a wider pattern  21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 10th Jun 2012 10:49 pm |
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Mr Kington
Member Since: 12 Dec 2011
Location: Scottish Borders
Posts: 1552
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Just had my belts done on my 2005 plate. It isnt 7 yet and has only done 56k. Has anyone spoken with landrover directly ? for those that have had this happen are landrover footing the bill or are we meant to fork out for this ? seriously considering getting warranty now, cheaper than a £5k engine.
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| 11th Jun 2012 8:05 am |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26770
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The problem with after market warranties, is they would probably would exclude consequential damage. So, the oil pump casting would be covered, but the remains of the engine would not.
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| 11th Jun 2012 8:08 am |
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Mr Kington
Member Since: 12 Dec 2011
Location: Scottish Borders
Posts: 1552
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Thanks Gareth and very valid point. Just keep my fingers crossed it doesnt happen. I did get Stratstones to do the work rather than an indy incase there were problems later on. I am hoping that should the worst happen then I will have to go back to them.
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| 11th Jun 2012 8:11 am |
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DSL
Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73070
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Had a look at that with WD and they cover castings that have failed as a result of an insured item failing. Would be down to what's the cause and what's the effect.
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| 11th Jun 2012 8:12 am |
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stapldm
Member Since: 11 Sep 2006
Location: Swine Town
Posts: 2330
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Ok, although not great numbers of failures overall, those that have failed appear to have failed in exactly the same way.
What I'm currently trying to figure out, is what engine conditions/event causes the shock loading of the CAM belt to rip the tensioner off? The tensioner is supposed to even out those kind of shocks (as a happy side effect) so I'm assuming that the spring has maxxed out to the end stop to cause the break.
What engine driving style will put excess strain in the belt? I can think of the following situations but don't know which is more likely to cause the issue and therefore be best avoided until a new pump plate can be fitted:
RPM Red line
Hard acceleration - too high a gear (more torque required at lower revs)
Hard acceleration - normal gear
Engine braking
Failed/blocked EGRs (excessive vacuum when butterfly closes)
Fuel filter blockage putting strain on high pressure fuel pump.
In tank pump failure putting strain on high pressure fuel pump.
Mud/crap in fuel pump belt.
Mud/crap in cambelt.
Hard landings when off-roading. ( unlikely in the extreme, but..)
Surging the revs (Roundabout, plant it to go then back to brake as something too fast appears)
Any thoughts? Is there a connection between louder engine tappet like sound and stress on the belt?
Is there anyone in the know? Dr. Ian Malcolm:
"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
Transgenic tomato anyone?
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| 11th Jun 2012 12:37 pm |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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I was doing a steady 55-60 on a dual carriageway, had been steady on the motoroway for the 100 miles before that. Dont believe I meet any of that criteria.... Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 11th Jun 2012 12:45 pm |
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countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
 
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I am no expert at all, so this is just a assumption. I don't think there is a way a shock load is causing the tensioner mounting to break. My own amateur view is that the belt is coming off, going behind the tensioner and then the belt being driven and getting tighter as it is off the pulleys is causing the tensioner to be pulled forward and breaking. The design of the oil pump to which it is mounted is to take the load left to right and not forward or backwards. If you look at the break pattern, it almost looks like it is being pulled away and not down.
As I say this is just my thoughts on it.
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| 11th Jun 2012 12:51 pm |
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stapldm
Member Since: 11 Sep 2006
Location: Swine Town
Posts: 2330
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Bodsy, as far as you know you had clean fuel filter and fully working EGRs?
Sounds like you weren't pushing the engine at all, so any extra shock must have been from something quiet, like the HPFP or the EGRs. EGRs would have been active around 55ish when under no acceleration. Dr. Ian Malcolm:
"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
Transgenic tomato anyone?
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| 11th Jun 2012 12:57 pm |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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theres not enough space for the belt to come off and get behind the tensioner when you have the cover on not without causing visible damage to the cover or the belt. if it did come off an go behind the tensioner, somehow and the engine still running then the belt would just be tight and miss the tensioner altogether....
the belt is too stiff to wrap around any component IMHO.
Break pattern looks pulling down (as you would expect the pressure to be) and not up as the larger part of the break is at the top where its not strong enough between the bolts.... Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 11th Jun 2012 12:59 pm |
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DN
D3 Decade
Member Since: 23 Jun 2006
Location: W.London.
Posts: 2344
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Has anyone managed to find out if the later(much stronger looking) oil pumps will fit earlier engines? I know the crankshafts have been upgraded for later engines (another weakness  ), so this may mean that the front oil seal diameter may be different amongst other things. I can't see the point in fitting another of the same weak item if you are thinking of replacing before anything terrible happens.
Last edited by DN on 11th Jun 2012 1:17 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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| 11th Jun 2012 1:03 pm |
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stapldm
Member Since: 11 Sep 2006
Location: Swine Town
Posts: 2330
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Countrywide; I'm going to play devils advocate here in spite of thinking what you've said is plausible; but if the casting design includes the equivalent of a toilet paper perforation, then isn't it always going to follow roughly the same failure line no matter what direction the load came from?
Got me thinking tho Dr. Ian Malcolm:
"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
Transgenic tomato anyone?
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| 11th Jun 2012 1:03 pm |
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