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cmb2020
Member Since: 08 Sep 2020
Location: Buckley, North Wales
Posts: 1150
  
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Thanks
Not sure on the output of this winch but it’s only a small 500kg one.
I’ll get the 350 amp fuse and 35mm2 cable. And wire up as recommended. Thanks again!
As for the big rhino winch 13500lbs on front bumper. I will isolate the positive. My error I presumed I remembered negative being the one to use for switch safety. I’ll do positive today!
Also, is it worth fusing the main front winch? Or leave it wired directly to battery? Disco 3 SE Manual 2005 V6 2.7
Buckley, North Wales
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 17th May 2021 8:22 am |
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aja4x4
Member Since: 14 Apr 2019
Location: Westbury
Posts: 2459
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I definitely put a negative fuse just before the battery.
If you have an accident without one you it could short and cause a fire.
I would fit a 450a mega fuse Andrew
D3 2.7tdv6 2005
D4 3.0 SDV6 Commercial died and gone to LR heaven
D5 3.0 SDV6 HSE
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| 17th May 2021 11:04 am |
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Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10367
 
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you want a fuse in the red positive +
If this wire rubbs against the body work it will heat up and could lead to a fire
And when something has been installed as aftermarket, the chances are high
I'd fit something like this ?
Fuse for front, fuse for rear.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401764701270?ha...Sw4GVYIZe-
maybe they do aftermarket versions
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| 17th May 2021 11:53 am |
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cmb2020
Member Since: 08 Sep 2020
Location: Buckley, North Wales
Posts: 1150
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Thanks
Did order a 350 but I’ll order two 450s now. And wire them both in on the positive wire a few inches from battery. Maybe bolt town to the side of the battery housing.
Also, can anyone recommend an adequate switch for the main winch please? To replace the red plastic rap one I have
Thanks Disco 3 SE Manual 2005 V6 2.7
Buckley, North Wales
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| 17th May 2021 5:57 pm |
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cmb2020
Member Since: 08 Sep 2020
Location: Buckley, North Wales
Posts: 1150
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Sorry to clarify, 350 mega fuse for the 500kg one and a 450 for the 6 tonne winch? Or 450 for both? Disco 3 SE Manual 2005 V6 2.7
Buckley, North Wales
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| 17th May 2021 5:59 pm |
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Duc750
Member Since: 07 Aug 2017
Location: northampton
Posts: 305
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Just keep in mind Megas blow at twice their rated current - a 450amp mega blowing at 900 amps is really rather a lot - your solenoid pack would have welded shut long before that blows - lets be honest if you stall a 13500kg winch its time to sit down, have a cup of tea and reconsider a few life choices 05 D3 V8 HSE, LR Passion tree bars, wildbear compressor guard, LRP switch panel, ARB rear locker + compressor, Trigger 6 shooter electrical system
12 RRS SDV6 HSE (Hers) - Gone and replaced with an I Pace - I can tell you now EV is not the future yet
Metalian Camper trailer
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| 17th May 2021 6:34 pm |
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aja4x4
Member Since: 14 Apr 2019
Location: Westbury
Posts: 2459
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cmb2020 wrote:Sorry to clarify, 350 mega fuse for the 500kg one and a 450 for the 6 tonne winch? Or 450 for both?
Yes 350a for the rear winch and 450a for the rear as said before they take double the rated value before they blow and are designed to protect the cable not the winches.
35mm2 will handle 900a for the short time it takes the fuse to blow if theres a short and the rear cable is longer so it has lower fuse Andrew
D3 2.7tdv6 2005
D4 3.0 SDV6 Commercial died and gone to LR heaven
D5 3.0 SDV6 HSE
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| 17th May 2021 6:48 pm |
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Duc750
Member Since: 07 Aug 2017
Location: northampton
Posts: 305
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But you're not stalling at 900 amps - you'll be stalling at much lower so you could go with a lower fuse for both. Your peak draw happens at stall which is probably around 450 itself - you don't want to hold a winch on stall as that shortens everything's life 05 D3 V8 HSE, LR Passion tree bars, wildbear compressor guard, LRP switch panel, ARB rear locker + compressor, Trigger 6 shooter electrical system
12 RRS SDV6 HSE (Hers) - Gone and replaced with an I Pace - I can tell you now EV is not the future yet
Metalian Camper trailer
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| 17th May 2021 7:21 pm |
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cmb2020
Member Since: 08 Sep 2020
Location: Buckley, North Wales
Posts: 1150
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Sorry you say 350 for rear then 450 for rear as an error. To confirm you mean 350 for rear 500kg and 450 for front 6tonner?
I understand not much about ampage etc sorry. All I do know is I’d rather the fuse go before anything else!! So I can get some spares too once I’ve got it set up correctly. Disco 3 SE Manual 2005 V6 2.7
Buckley, North Wales
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| 17th May 2021 7:31 pm |
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Duc750
Member Since: 07 Aug 2017
Location: northampton
Posts: 305
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simple terms - what is the stall current of each winch? - you want the fuse to pop at that stall current and ideally not much higher - you want your wires to cope with a momentary about 20% higher than your fuse momentary as a general rule and allowing for transmission losses etc that you've already been guided on
So my 12500lb winch stalls out at 357amps so in an ideal world given that the stall happens momentarily I would want a fuse that blows at 358 amps and wires for that run that can cop with 358 * 1.2 = 429 amps
Any isolator should be able to cope with more than the wires as its a mechanical device and they can have a nasty habit of welding themselves closed when overloaded. So if it were me (and its not) I'd be putting a 200amp mega in my front winch as that would blow at 400 amps momentary and to hit that I'd be doing something very wrong and would have long since stalled the winch
Once the winch is stalled it can't do anything else mechanically so that energy has to go somewhere. it will then find the next weakest place to escape - you want that to be the fuse otherwise it may elected to escape as "Magic smoke"
Important thing is that these are your calcs based on your install based on your comfort levels. You have the spec sheets in front of you for the winches 05 D3 V8 HSE, LR Passion tree bars, wildbear compressor guard, LRP switch panel, ARB rear locker + compressor, Trigger 6 shooter electrical system
12 RRS SDV6 HSE (Hers) - Gone and replaced with an I Pace - I can tell you now EV is not the future yet
Metalian Camper trailer
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| 17th May 2021 7:44 pm |
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cmb2020
Member Since: 08 Sep 2020
Location: Buckley, North Wales
Posts: 1150
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Sorry I haven’t heard of a winch stalling threshold. I don’t know the brand to find out for the small one. And it never had a problem connected directly to old car battery and took a right battering.
The big one is the rhino 13500lb one that’s recommended on here.
I follow what’s been explained. And thanks! However I’m unsure how to find out the stall threshold for which fuse is correct for both.
I know it’s been said several times how to do it etc. But i don’t understand what amp each one should have. It was only today that I found I should have an additional fuse put in my main winch.
As far as I understand I’ve got nearly all the correct parts needed. And understand why I can’t use what I originally presumed. But the amp rating for each winch I don’t understand how to calculate for myself as I don’t know their ratings. Nor do i know what is a safe guess Disco 3 SE Manual 2005 V6 2.7
Buckley, North Wales
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| 17th May 2021 9:08 pm |
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TigerRecovery
Member Since: 31 May 2017
Location: Long Stratton, Norwich, Norfolk
Posts: 901
  
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Electric motors draw most current when they are stalled, basically, it's a short circuit across the motor windings. Once a load is moving the current reduces. If you think about a car starter motor, it can take 800 amps to get an engine moving, but after a few revolutions, that current is down to around 200 amps.
With a winch, it's got the ability to stall twice, once when starting off if the load is more than the winch capacity (related to the layer of rope you're using on the drum) and secondly when the object you're winching gets stuck or stops moving. This could be a combination of things such as the rope has been spooled onto the drum reducing the capacity of the winch (maximum pull is on the last layer) to the same as the load you're winching or, the vehicle has got snagged on a tree root or rock.
If you start to detect the winch slowing down, the easiest thing to do is to stop, spool out the rope and use a pulley block to double the line from your vehicle to the casualty vehicle. This does several things, it uses mechanical advantage with a pulley (2:1 force multiplication) and it also removes the rope from the drum increasing the capacity of the winch.
You shouldn't need to get to the point of blowing a fuse if you're paying attention to the winch operation. 1972 Range Rover Classic 2 door V8
2013 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE - SCRAPPED
2016 Land Rover Discovery 4 Landmark
2022 Volvo XC40 T5 PHEV 282HP FWD 3 cylinder!
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| 17th May 2021 9:59 pm |
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Duc750
Member Since: 07 Aug 2017
Location: northampton
Posts: 305
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And Tiger's last point is exactly what I was getting to with "reviewing your life choices that got you to that point
So a quick google says that the Rhino 13500 pulls up to 400 amps so after that you're stalled
That's probably based on achieving the 13500lb rating on a single wrap of the drum (where the winch is at its most powerful)
A 2000lb warrior i just grabbed the specs from tops out at 90 amps by way of comparison
to be honest at the lower end I think most of the winches are coming out of the same factory 05 D3 V8 HSE, LR Passion tree bars, wildbear compressor guard, LRP switch panel, ARB rear locker + compressor, Trigger 6 shooter electrical system
12 RRS SDV6 HSE (Hers) - Gone and replaced with an I Pace - I can tell you now EV is not the future yet
Metalian Camper trailer
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| 17th May 2021 11:39 pm |
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cmb2020
Member Since: 08 Sep 2020
Location: Buckley, North Wales
Posts: 1150
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Thanks
I’m just struggling to understand what amp fuses I know you’ve explained but I’m struggling to follow how to calculate. As stupid as I’m sounding.
So I’d want a 450 for the 13500 winch yes?
And for the smaller 500kg unbranded one, 350?
If not could you be kind enough to tell me the answer instead of explaining how to calculate as I’m having a thick moment sorry again Disco 3 SE Manual 2005 V6 2.7
Buckley, North Wales
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| 18th May 2021 7:33 am |
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Hardware
Member Since: 28 Jun 2016
Location: Hiding under the M60
Posts: 12711
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here's my advice ... for what it's worth.
Given you seem unsure about wiring and fuse rating why not install it all but fit some low rated fuses, way below the stall ratings.
This way if you've cocked up the wiring, the fuse will blow way before any damage is done and you get the chance to review your work without having to remove a load of melted plastic and starting again.
then once you're happy it's all good, fit the proper rated fuses.
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| 18th May 2021 8:07 am |
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