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MSetubal
Member Since: 08 Jun 2012
Location: St. Brelade
Posts: 44
  
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| Will not start in sub-zero temperatures |
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Let me start with, I don't come here very often but it is such a great source of information and it helped a lot with my last problem.
Disco 3 2006 SE will not start in sub-zero temperatures. I have just returned from Austria where temperatures dropped to -8 overnight, the first week the car was garaged and started every time 8C inside, but the second week the car was outside. First day, -2C after a couple of attempts started and ran fine. all other days, irrelevant of temperature -1C to -4C it would not start. however, once I got it running it ran fine and started fine for the rest of the day, until the next day.
The car had a full service in November 2016, and the sump sensor was found to be faulty and replaced. I believe these are know to fail and cause start problems in sub-zero temperatures. Battery replaced December 2015 and in good condition. all parts replaced as part of the service are OEM parts, diesel filter, oil filter, gearbox oil, engine oil, 1 injector, etc, etc...
Because this is not a new problem, I asked the glow plugs to be checked and replaced if needed. The glow plugs were checked for voltage and resistance but not removed as these can break.
Now for the symptoms;
morning arrives, display says -4C, glow plugs on for a few seconds, cranks strong, smoke and diesel smell from both exhausts, but no start. first day, tried several times but still no start. The engine was still turning strong, not touched the accelerator. In the end before I called the AA, I decided to roll her down the hill and do a push start and behold started immediately.
So, every morning I would park the car in the same spot, try the ignition, same thing everyday, strong crank, smoke and smell but no start. Roll her down the hill, starts immediately.
I am perplexed as to why it doesn't start on the key but push start, starts immediately.
I have red, crank position sensor can cause start problems. I am going to see my mechanic tomorrow and hopefully there will be some fault codes in the ECU and all will get explained.
The problem is, I live in Jersey and temperatures never drop below 0 (zero), hence difficult to replicate the problem. However, I am going skiing in March and would like this problem resolved.
Just to give you an idea, this is not a new problem and it has been going on for 1.5 years. So, any help would be much appreciated.
Mario
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 3rd Jan 2017 12:39 am |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
 
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On a bump start, you'll have the full weight of the car and pressure build up so that may give it more pressure somehow. Also, you'll have diesel in there that will possibly had a bit more heat from even failing glow plugs.
Either way, get the glowplugs changed or I can supply you a gsm FBH controller that will warm the engine block up and makes starting so much easier.  Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 3rd Jan 2017 1:29 am |
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sacimiddx
Member Since: 09 Mar 2007
Location: hants
Posts: 2143
 
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The fbh remote solution the safest cost wise Illegitimi Non Carborundum
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| 3rd Jan 2017 8:04 am |
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LittleG
Member Since: 21 Sep 2013
Location: Wombourne
Posts: 389
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And still works beautifully Paul, on your old D3
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| 3rd Jan 2017 11:55 am |
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Discogaz
Member Since: 17 Mar 2014
Location: Bracknell
Posts: 1399
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I've found that if you let the glow plugs cycle a few times when it's really cold, then try to start, it catches
but if you try to start each time, the injected fuel will cool the glow plugs down each time if it doesn't catch.
Ignition on, wait for glow plugs indicator to go off, then ignition off for a second and back on again and repeat one more time.
Certainly worked for me in the recent -6 temperatures when it wouldn't start first time.
Gary
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| 3rd Jan 2017 12:43 pm |
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kevin-t
Member Since: 12 Nov 2007
Location: sheffield
Posts: 680
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Unnecessary quote removed
I have been using this method for the past 6 years! When cold, It never failed me. (touch wood).
My mechanic, is reluctant to remove the Glow plugs.
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| 3rd Jan 2017 12:49 pm |
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MSetubal
Member Since: 08 Jun 2012
Location: St. Brelade
Posts: 44
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I also tried that method in -4C, on, light on then off, cycle key without crank and still didn't start. I think I cycled it about 3 or 4 times before cranking. 
let's hope that mechanic does not break any...
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| 3rd Jan 2017 12:57 pm |
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L319
Member Since: 14 Dec 2013
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 2080
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Also the glow plug cycle is longer than shown by the warning light, I leave ignition on longer. for a some seconds after the light extinguishers before cranking and I find it starts better
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| 3rd Jan 2017 12:58 pm |
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Moo
D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13908
 
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MSetubal wrote:I also tried that method in -4C, on, light on then off, cycle key without crank and still didn't start. I think I cycled it about 3 or 4 times before cranking.
let's hope that mechanic does not break any...
Make sure you get a confirmed quote in writing if you replace the glow plugs. When it goes wrong it is very, very expensive! New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
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| 3rd Jan 2017 1:08 pm |
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Gazellio
Member Since: 09 Jan 2011
Location: Chilterns
Posts: 4130
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Discogaz wrote:I've found that if you let the glow plugs cycle a few times when it's really cold, then try to start, it catches
but if you try to start each time, the injected fuel will cool the glow plugs down each time if it doesn't catch.
Ignition on, wait for glow plugs indicator to go off, then ignition off for a second and back on again and repeat one more time.
Certainly worked for me in the recent -6 temperatures when it wouldn't start first time.
Gary
This is the answer I did exact same this morning at -4 after failed first crank. After three glow-plug warm up without a crank it started first turn. I think this may be more relevant if some of your glow-plugs are faulty putting increased burden on the others...
Anyway certainly works....
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| 3rd Jan 2017 2:13 pm |
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PaulJC
Member Since: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Herts / Essex
Posts: 192
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The glow plugs stay on longer then the glow plug light does dependant on temperature, up to 25 seconds iirc, turn on ignition, ignore light, count to 20, then try to start 
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| 3rd Jan 2017 2:59 pm |
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Discogaz
Member Since: 17 Mar 2014
Location: Bracknell
Posts: 1399
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Good tip Paul, worth remembering now the temps are headed downwards this week onwards.
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| 3rd Jan 2017 3:00 pm |
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Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10365
 
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PaulJC wrote:The glow plugs stay on longer then the glow plug light does dependant on temperature, up to 25 seconds iirc, turn on ignition, ignore light, count to 20, then try to start
I thought the same as you, but this snippet sugguests otherwise?
Maybe that is why cycling the ignition works!
Quote:SYSTEM OPERATION
There are three phases of glow plug heating: Pre heating, crank heating and post heating. The ECM determines the heating
times from the engine coolant temperature (ECT). The lower the ECT, the longer the heating times.
When the ignition switch is turned to position II, the ECM calculates any required heating times and, if heating is required,
energizes the glow plug relays in the BJB. When pre heating is required, the ECM also sends a message to the instrument
cluster, on the high speed controller area network (CAN) bus, to request illumination of the glow plug indicator. The glow plug
indicator remains illuminated for the duration of the pre heating phase, or until the ignition switch is turned to the crank
position, whichever occurs first. If required, the ECM keeps the glow plug relays energized during cranking and for the
duration of any post heating phase.
Quote:Pre-heat is the length of time the glow plugs operate prior to engine cranking. The ECM controls the pre-heat time based on
ECT sensor output and battery voltage. If the ECT sensor fails, the ECM will use the IAT sensor value as a default value. The
pre-heat duration is extended if the coolant temperature is low and the battery is not fully charged.
Post heat is the length of time the glow plugs operate after the engine starts. The ECM controls the post heating time based
on ECT sensor output. The post heat phase reduces engine noise, improves idle quality and reduces hydrocarbon emissions.
When the ignition is switched on to position II, the glow plug warning lamp illuminates and the instrument cluster displays
'PREHEATING' in the message centre. The glow-lamp is activated separately from the glow-plugs, so is not illuminated during
or after start. The plugs can still be ON when the lamp is off in these two phases.
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| 3rd Jan 2017 8:11 pm |
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hugeviking
Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1482
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I dont get "preheating" in the message centre.
Andi.
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| 3rd Jan 2017 8:17 pm |
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J@mes
Member Since: 10 Nov 2008
Location: Bomber County
Posts: 4547
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If you take the vehicle skiing regularly then bite the bullet and have the plugs done.
I tried a FBH controller and when the temperatures are properly cold it made no difference at all. If anything I'd imagine it would adversely affect whatever life the plugs have left in them as the coolant temp sensor reading a reasonable temperature will switch the glow plug circuit off anyway.
Quite embarrassing cranking the b  cks off your "go anywhere" LR and waking the whole resort up while my father in law patiently waits in his........Mazda 6 estate 
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| 3rd Jan 2017 8:24 pm |
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