Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011
Yes, there's a lot of Sprinters used in my line of business - probably a bit too big for my use though as I can't drive what looks to be a commercial vehicle - which is what ruled out the VW transporter too.
I'm sorted for a few years now because I've just secured another D4... which is perfect for me. Just sad that it'll be the last one. LR don't seem to be interested in supplying utility vehicles anymore - clearly there's more money to be made elsewhere!2005 D3 HSE 2011 D4 Landmark 2016 D4 HSE Lux
2017 Ford Tourneo VR46
Club Waitomo
My point is it is done and dusted ...it will sell like hotcakes .....there's no point in destroying your own brain cells moaning about it
Well said. If it looked too much like a D4 people would criticise them for that too !!
.....Point totally missed
it doesn't have to look like a D3/4...but equally it doesn't have to look like a a RRS, Evoke, DS (peas from the pod) or any other 4WD SUV - but it ought to be the load lugging vehicle we have right now..I say ought to be as that is why I bought mine....the reasoning paid off with the service my D3 has given me.
The pics of prototypes we think are the D5, & the other pictures from trees releases arent the rectangular vehicle we all have right now, but something with a swept back rear roof so unless it is a Tardis will until I see one not be on my new car radar.
Im not thinking about my D4 having plummeting values (realistically it happens when any vehicle model is replaced) as I didn't buy one (as I didn't want one - I bought a totally impractical Jag XK instead).....my D3 is now 10 with 110k miles on it it owes me nothing & is in a very drivable usable state.
I'm never an early adopter of anything...& dont intend to be - ever
...but it'll all be revealed with the official launch & price structure release some time soon.
Those who want to be first kids on the block with one will splurge regardless of what its like - may even be on order right now, other discerning types with probably less spare cash or lower credit profile will wait & see. The wise way
Well if you're that tight on space maybe you should be looking at vans ? Do you fill your D3 right up to its square corners or what ? I think not.
Robse
To answer your query
I think so..
On numerous occasions I have used the space provided & I don't see why because of this I am urged to buy a VAN.
Just because other users or potential users want a D5 that is sexed up & made the same shape (at the cost of interior capacity) as other recent LandRover "Peas out of the same pod" designs, shapes, concepts - I for one DONT.
If you want the affluent persons vehicle = FFRR...really nice car, very costly not for me just yet
If you want the hairdresser/ drug dealer mobile = RRS....nice car but way down on realistic 5 seat capacity a bit small 4x4
if you aspire to having a squished RRS with the underpinnings of a Freelander = Evoke....simply horrid & to me a travesty to "soil the brand" with a whim off a design freak
&
If you want a rebooted Freelander at a grossly inflated price = DS ...to me it doesnt even build on the strengths or attributes of the outgoing model...to me it goes back to Freelander 1 situation...park one by the side, then get in & see what I mean
To me LR have lost the plot in respect of differentiating the models offered for sale
Disco 5 is very very very SsannYong...& it docent have a MERC engine (currently)BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
Last edited by BLFarrar on 4th Aug 2016 8:45 pm. Edited 1 time in total
4th Aug 2016 6:13 pm
Robse
Member Since: 10 Jun 2014
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 498
But why does it matter what it looks like if it performs the function you require it to do ?
You make these judgements without knowing the size or boot capacity of the D5.
Everyone seems to be so worried about losing their "utilitarian" vehicle just by looking at pictures ?
Has anyone wondered if it might be bigger ?! Or is it just about the manly looks ?!Velar MY18 D180 S Narvik
Discovery MY2015 3.0 SDV6 SE Corris - Gone
4th Aug 2016 6:40 pm
lespes
Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Sitting Down
Posts: 2232
Think folks ar more worried over the way Landrover has gone in recent years, rather than any pictures seen on web.
Form and function out, Fashion and Frivolity in D4 Landmark MY16 Santorini Black THE LAST
D4 HSE MY12 Marmais Teal: Gone. Missed a lot!
Freelander 2 SD HSE MY11 Silver:Thankfully gone.
D4 HSE MY11 Silver: Gone missed !
Range Rover Sport MY06 HSE Buck Blue: Gone missed!
Discovery D2 TD5 Facelift MY Red Gone Missed!
Discovery D2 TD5 Cobalt Blue: Gone Missed!
Discovery D1 Auto Oxford Blue Not missed at all!
Discovery D1 Avalon Blue First LR! missed!
Now demoted to a VW
4th Aug 2016 6:56 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73132
I would deffo mourn the loss of the split tailgate.
But why does it matter what it looks like if it performs the function you require it to do ?
You make these judgements without knowing the size or boot capacity of the D5.
Everyone seems to be so worried about losing their "utilitarian" vehicle just by looking at pictures ?
Has anyone wondered if it might be bigger ?! Or is it just about the manly looks ?!
OK
The point is:
function which to me & lots of others i.e. the load lugging capacity combined with being able to use it as a 5 - 7 seater, tow large trailers, do that in any road condition & in reasonable comfort at a realistic price.
As opposed to:
A vehicle with possibly a compromise on interior capacity, a vehicle that has pretensions of being more up market which pitches the price far higher than it was....a D3 10 years ago was a bargain in comparison to the stable mates (RRS & FFRR)
If I wanted a van I would buy one.....I bought a Disco3 which followed Disco 2's & Disco 1's as a logical progression
So there are two issues:
1) the interior capacity allied to a vehicle which is superlative in multi function sense.....if it's the same interior capacity OK
2) the compatitive cost in the Land Rover range....which to me will be hiked up as its now seen to address a more affluent customer......lots of bling......if there's a utilitarian model in the range with major features at a comparatively realistic cost OK
Robse.....you mightn't need, use or realise the capacity of your D3/4.....others do....lots of them....including me.
As a comparison that is credible (as its the other half of the company combo) look at the Jaguar range & prices...there is distinct model differentiation & a distinct pricing structure.
They had an issue until earlier this year - a smaller vehicle "entry level" model that was a vacancy when the X type discontinued - this was filled by the XE. so range from XE through XF to XJ is logically differentiated in size, features & prices.
The LandRover range is now very illogical with all models bunched at a high pricing structure...the entry level DS which replaced the Freelander is now priced high...at the time when the EVOKE was launched the Freelander represented a bargain its replacement scuppered that.
OK as said above LandRover are there to make a profit - by making vehicles, that I understand.
But the most critical stakeholder is believe it or not the CUSTOMER who has the choice of many makers & models.
One of the unwritten rules in business & marketing is dont lose repeat customers - you do this at your peril as a new model may not reap the benefits you predict - existing customers usually want to renew to the newer model for reasons of vanity & ego on one hand & practical reasons on another (vehicle older, high on upkeep & unreliable).
Other makers have realised the market gaps & sectors in the 4x4 SUV market in which LR didn't have as much competition as of now.
BMW at least 3 or 4 vehicles...differentiated on size, spec & cost
Audi at least 4 ...differentiated on size, spec & cost
VW have two...differentiated on size, spec & cost
Merc have 3.....differentiated on size, spec & cost
Toyota have 2...differentiated on size, spec & cost
JEEP have 4.....differentiated on size, spec & cost
LandRover to me have got it horribly wrong & seem to resist having a low cost reasonable spec vehicle if not a lower specification (but same engines) vehicle even version but on same substructure.
Good example is VW..... the group build alternative models on the same engine floorpan...Skoda, SEAT & AUDI....many parts from the same bin...differentiated prices.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
4th Aug 2016 9:02 pm
APL
Member Since: 14 Sep 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 1130
20 years ago the Discovery was the best selling 4WD in Ireland. Now, it's much further down the list, and I doubt it is going to rise much. Cost factor is the reason, I think.2016 Discovery 4 Commercial
2019 Discovery 5 HSE
4th Aug 2016 9:49 pm
Robse
Member Since: 10 Jun 2014
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 498
Ok I give up I can't reply to all that !! But I do realise the full capacity of my awesome D4 and I use it all - sometimes.
I'll buy the D5 because it will do everything I need it to do, regardless if it looks like a ssangyong or whatever and I won't compare it to any other Japanese or German brand as Land Rover have always been very different.
I'll buy it because it will transport me and my precious family SAFELY - something you fail to mention in your "utilitarian" list of essential needs. I don't want to put my hand up a sheeps vagina on the split tailgate, I want to sit with my family and have a picnic !! I'm sure Land Rovers new activity platform will be much better for this !!
I also need a good off-roader for shooting, and undoubtedly it will be amazing for this just as my present D4 is if not better.
So, a modern design, updated safety and tech, where's the problem ??Velar MY18 D180 S Narvik
Discovery MY2015 3.0 SDV6 SE Corris - Gone
6th Aug 2016 5:53 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
In the time between the Discovery Vision concept first being seen and the virtually identical new Discovery being seen (with only minor disguise), the design has grown tired incredibly quickly. There's really nothing to get excited about with this car.
If I were to spend the price of a D4 + £5,000 to £10,000, I'd want it to look different from anything else out there. This design is just not good enough.2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
6th Aug 2016 7:37 pm
fat bloke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2006
Location: OXFORD
Posts: 1258
Thats the point in most land rovers over priced aimed towards people who have more money than sense,they don't grasped the concept of what L/R is about.To most it's the key ring/advertisers love it look at americas cup sailing/show jumping /tennis the list go's on.
Other manufacturers showing similar designs and technology with vehicles a lot less in price .Look at the Dacia under £10k won lots of awards.
L/R design team to me are getting lazy they are well paid to design WHAT ? My daughter could do better job.
Put all L/R face on to each other and joe public would struggle to put the correct name to model as their is no stand out feature once D4 GO'S...
6th Aug 2016 9:07 pm
RDR
Member Since: 24 Mar 2013
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 2260
I think the fact we are missing a defender replacement in the lineup is creating a lot of negativity towards the brand. LR have messed up not getting the replacement out and are losing a lot of people looking for a utilitarian vehicle at an affordable (ish) price.
Landrover have always produced model lineups that are very similar looking. If you lined up a series I, II and III joe public would struggle to identify them straight away likewise the 90 and 110 were identical except one had been stretched. Discovery 1 & 2 almost identical and then the 3 & 4 ?
The D3 was in my opinion the most forward thinking radical design LR ever produced, i would love them to have the balls to try something as bold again but in this economic climate I think it would be too risky given the R&D required.
Personally I'm looking forward to the D5, we are an outdoors family but i like comfort and technology so it should fit the bill. Boot space does look less which could blow it for me but I'm hoping it will be enough to work with !MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten
MY12 HSE - Gone
MY16 HSE Luxury - Sold
MY20 D5 HSE - Sold
Current RR L460 PHEV
Safety is a given on the types of vehicles we are talking about...
I come from the days of having "built like a tank" Volvos in the 80's & 90's...those were strong in a pile up - the cars if today are as strong via a different method structure as opposed to sheer bulk.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
6th Aug 2016 11:44 pm
galwaygreen
Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: plymouth
Posts: 6525
price for this wonder
7th Aug 2016 12:33 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
BLFarrar wrote:
The LandRover range is now very illogical
Quote:
Jaguar Land Rover reported 34% jump in retail sales in July at 44,486 units on Friday
Very illogical 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
7th Aug 2016 12:54 am
crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011
Chasing sales is not the same as building a brand !
What happens when fashion moves on to something else?
An exceptionally capable Defender replacement is going to get very urgent if LR want sales to continue to rise. We can't be the only ones to notice a huge hole in their range once the D4 is gone.2005 D3 HSE 2011 D4 Landmark 2016 D4 HSE Lux
2017 Ford Tourneo VR46
Club Waitomo
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bigger ?! Or is it just about the manly looks ?!
