Member Since: 24 Mar 2013
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 2260
I hope JLRs modernisation of production lines plus the new engine plant mean Landrover, jaguar and rangerover can start responding to market demands (and competition) much quicker. New platforms once a decade isn't gonna cut it anymore I'd like to see a brand new discovery every 4 - 5 years rather than 10 !MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten
MY12 HSE - Gone
MY16 HSE Luxury - Sold
MY20 D5 HSE - Sold
Current RR L460 PHEV
The time frequency at 5 years I agree with, "New" vehicle I do not
The change ought to be one of evolution not revolution...to me at least "if it aint broke it doesn't need fixing", it doesn't have to "change for changes" sake. it could however evolve into something just as capable & look different "stylish"
The example is use is the FFRR - in the last 15 years its been all about making it better, plusher, more sophisticated without altering the basic theme...it still is the same size (- ish), still has a split tailgate, five seats & four with unbelievable comfort.
size & capability is a fact- it is either the same size or it isn't. I dont go along with the guff that the load area is "more litres" - it all about width height & overall length & importantly the width & height is consistent along the length having a roof line that is swept down because of some aesthetic family theme is rubbish when you are carrying people, goods & stuff that D3's & D4's carry naturally. .....essentially you dont have to use a roof rack or go hire a van
what it looks like is a matter of style- that is purely an opinion based thing that can & does alter....alters as time passes, people see something else & compare. or maybe another set of factors...what I think looks good / bad is solely my opinion
However what it looks like may make people buy a New D5 or maybe not - it depends on the needs, values & criterion being used. My needs are my needs. Some will buy new just because its new.... maybe its an ego "look at me" thing, boosts "ones newer than yours" esteem thing or satisfies some other need...actually Im not really bothered. Im bothered about having a logical step to re new my D3 in that Im not sold short or my use of the vehicle compromised...I have moved from D1 to D2 to D3..but not D4 as it didn't represent a logical step to spend for the need for spending
How it does its job is also factual& not based on style,my "jobs" are my jobs & maybe the same as other peoples or maybe not....lengths of wood that are too long to get into the whole length you have right now...easy fix just partially close the upper tailgate. Job done. Thats why I would prefer the split tailgate is retained (as it has been on the FFRR)..I'm not interested about others who dont use it so dont like it.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
7th Aug 2016 8:54 am
Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
The market dictates the product.
Apart from a few people on this site or others like it, who tend to be enthusiasts, then the vast majority of owners couldn't care less if the car can carry X, Y or Z, wether there's a split tailgate etc, has air suspension, stadium seating etc.
They want style, something that looks up to date and pointless gizmos, something that starts in the mornings, certainly not a D3/4 shape with out of date technology, quirks and breakdowns. I mean come on you could walk where ever your going quicker than wait for the Satnav to fire up.
7th Aug 2016 9:47 am
RDR
Member Since: 24 Mar 2013
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 2260
Re: RDR
BLFarrar wrote:
The time frequency at 5 years I agree with, "New" vehicle I do not
The change ought to be one of evolution not revolution...to me at least "if it aint broke it doesn't need fixing", it doesn't have to "change for changes" sake. it could however evolve into something just as capable & look different "stylish"
The example is use is the FFRR - in the last 15 years its been all about making it better, plusher, more sophisticated without altering the basic theme...it still is the same size (- ish), still has a split tailgate, five seats & four with unbelievable comfort.
size & capability is a fact- it is either the same size or it isn't. I dont go along with the guff that the load area is "more litres" - it all about width height & overall length & importantly the width & height is consistent along the length having a roof line that is swept down because of some aesthetic family theme is rubbish when you are carrying people, goods & stuff that D3's & D4's carry naturally. .....essentially you dont have to use a roof rack or go hire a van
what it looks like is a matter of style- that is purely an opinion based thing that can & does alter....alters as time passes, people see something else & compare. or maybe another set of factors...what I think looks good / bad is solely my opinion
However what it looks like may make people buy a New D5 or maybe not - it depends on the needs, values & criterion being used. My needs are my needs. Some will buy new just because its new.... maybe its an ego "look at me" thing, boosts "ones newer than yours" esteem thing or satisfies some other need...actually Im not really bothered. Im bothered about having a logical step to re new my D3 in that Im not sold short or my use of the vehicle compromised...I have moved from D1 to D2 to D3..but not D4 as it didn't represent a logical step to spend for the need for spending
How it does its job is also factual& not based on style,my "jobs" are my jobs & maybe the same as other peoples or maybe not....lengths of wood that are too long to get into the whole length you have right now...easy fix just partially close the upper tailgate. Job done. Thats why I would prefer the split tailgate is retained (as it has been on the FFRR)..I'm not interested about others who dont use it so dont like it.
Im with you on the split tailgate its something i love and would really like to continue on the D5 but its looking unlikely which is a shame. My D4 is constantly full we have the roof box almost permentanly on and tow a trailer almost constantly too.
The Litres of space is unimportant like you say its the workable dimensions that make it, I had a FFRR on order but had to cancel it changing to my current D4 as the rear roofline compromised the boot space so much for the dogs, the dealer let my try our great dane in the boot you should have seen his face he just looked at me and said "well thats not going to work shall be go and look at figures for another D4?" . The current FFRR is ruined from a practicality point of view compared to the previous which had a decent load space and a proper seat for the 5th person. I'm just praying the D5's obviously receding roofline isn't quite as bad as the FFRRs. Im also hoping the wheels still allow for some decent tyre choices as i have all terrain tyres to get the water bowser and trailers across fields weekly.
I think to keep up with Safety and environmental standards new platforms will be needed regulary aluminium is the current trend but it may be Carbon Fibre next and I would love to see JLR at the forefront of such innovation in passenger vehicles.MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten
MY12 HSE - Gone
MY16 HSE Luxury - Sold
MY20 D5 HSE - Sold
Current RR L460 PHEV
Apart from a few people on this site or others like it, who tend to be enthusiasts, then the vast majority of owners couldn't care less if the car can carry X, Y or Z, wether there's a split tailgate etc, has air suspension, stadium seating etc.
They want style, something that looks up to date and pointless gizmos, something that starts in the mornings, certainly not a D3/4 shape with out of date technology, quirks and breakdowns. I mean come on you could walk where ever your going quicker than wait for the Satnav to fire up.
In that case you & others that think or will buy that way have a HUGE range of vehicles to choose from that:
Maybe aren't made by LandRover
Aren't D3/4 shape (which dictates a huge amount of its multi-purpose functionality)
May be more reliable (I say may as other makes & types of vehicles cant do in the same in the conditions that a Disco does very easily)...my D3 has been very good over the 10 years Ive had it & actually used it - not in pub discussions but real use towing large trailers with v.large loads through atrocious conditions. large "on board" loads over large distances.
aren't got there by Sat Nav - mines been used all over Europe - it works - admittedly technology moves on but I dont trash or condemn a system that is over ten years old...if the Sat Nav start up time is a problem
you do get more patient as you get older & believe it or not we all do.....get older that is
...the 3 year old VW Golf Sat Nav I have in my works vehicle also has a longish start up time..this systems is considered by some as state of the art as regards Infotainment....
+ Ive run a Garmin & a phone powered system parallel the D3 system & on these whole arent a lot "faster", dont update any faster, arent integrated
+ the D3 one it doesn't lose a signal when mobile coverage is poor as believe me it does in certain parts of Europe, the UK & especially the West of Ireland
++ if a phone based comparison it doesn't run up a bill in roaming charges.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
7th Aug 2016 12:06 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
crews control wrote:
Chasing sales is not the same as building a brand !
What happens when fashion moves on to something else?
An exceptionally capable Defender replacement is going to get very urgent if LR want sales to continue to rise. We can't be the only ones to notice a huge hole in their range once the D4 is gone.
Building the brand is exactly what they are doing. None of the timescales should be a shock to anyone as they have been set out for some time ....hole or not ...they have a plan and they are sticking to it. 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
7th Aug 2016 12:54 pm
JksD4
Member Since: 31 Mar 2015
Location: Highlands
Posts: 100
Some of the style changes, especially the front end are dictated by safety - the D3/D4 bluff front end is poor for pedestrians, with the lower clamshell bonnet being better for initial deflection rather than crushing, and the aerodynamics is much better too.MY2010 D4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Stornaway grey
7th Aug 2016 2:34 pm
Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
like I said, this is an enthusiasts site, so traditionally dinosaurs, resistant to change.
A lot of people buy LR for the badge, what used to be called snob value.
Feedback show LR to be one of the more unreliable vehicle. Your lucky if you've had yours 10 years without footing a massive bill somewhere along the way or spent £1k per annum on a warranty.
As for the Satnav, youre perhaps the first to speak out in favour of it. TBH, the D4 one was appalling. Maybe the D3 one was better, but things are meant to get better with time, not worse.
As for patience, the older I get, the less I have. I make no excuses or apologies for that.
7th Aug 2016 4:15 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73131
D3 satnav was next to useless, bordering on stupid in the 2 satnav equipped D3s I've owned.
7th Aug 2016 4:23 pm
Robse
Member Since: 10 Jun 2014
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 498
I've read most threads on this site and don't think I've ever come across as much as I have in this one !!Velar MY18 D180 S Narvik
Discovery MY2015 3.0 SDV6 SE Corris - Gone
7th Aug 2016 5:03 pm
Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
And of course that carries credence from a self confessed Ewoke owner that is used to putting his arm up a Ewes private parts? You couldn't make this stuff up could ya.
Mind you one or two on here are a bit jealous aren't we Iggy?
like I said, this is an enthusiasts site, so traditionally dinosaurs, resistant to change.
A lot of people buy LR for the badge, what used to be called snob value.
Feedback show LR to be one of the more unreliable vehicle. Your lucky if you've had yours 10 years without footing a massive bill somewhere along the way or spent £1k per annum on a warranty.
As for the Satnav, youre perhaps the first to speak out in favour of it. TBH, the D4 one was appalling. Maybe the D3 one was better, but things are meant to get better with time, not worse.
As for patience, the older I get, the less I have. I make no excuses or apologies for that. :thumbs:
This dinosaur not only welcomes but embraces change - currently a Beta tester for the soon to arrive MaxOS Sierra (with SIRI voice recognition) & at work currently involved in spending many millions on new equipment for the process we operate (all very up to date technology from Italy)...when complete it will be the the first user site in the UK - besides being the largest stone processor.
But change for changes sake with functional aspects of the Disco is (to me) wrong if you follow the logical progression from Discovery 1 to where it is right now, evolution not revolution....if the loadspace capacity is compromised its just the same as the other LR 4x4s - not that good considering its a big vehicle.
Just try putting a couple or three 600 x 600 domestic white goods units on pallets in the back - without having to drop the rear seats.
My Disco has through 10 years ownership been serviced by dealers & most recently bean independent in Leeds I have replaced the wear parts & the only grudge thing was having to have the gearbox sorted at 95k....solely due to LR not specifying auto gearbox oil changes at realistic intervals.
I didn't go with a warranty...I took the risk but haven't (as yet) paid the price.
I have never considered a LR as a vehicle that is seen to have snob value...Aston...Bentley...more upmarket Mercs...maybe Jaaaaaaguar....
The SatNav...what do you want it to do besides navigating?.....predict horoscopes?....or display cartoons?.....
OK mine has done some quirky things with the first disc I had...since then not....it gets from A to B...either by button presses or the voice recognition...which once the commands are learnt is quite handy.
But a SatNav despite being very handy isn't something I use daily - only used (in whichever vehicle I am in..Disco, XK, Freelander or Golf) if I have to find somewhere I haven't been before, which is usually for work nationally but all my vehicle have "done" Europe a couple of times.
The only real issue I've had is with the XK one (very similar to the D4 I believe)...not finding some (very) obscure addresses in Northern Italy...but since going back there with the Golf that did just the same. It didnt.
It would be great if there was a newer disc...but there isn't one
I have used both a Garmin & a TomTom mainly in hire cars in France, Germany & (very often) in Italy & on the whole are usually bit faster but not that the time saved is actually useful unless your the "cant wait a few moments more type".
The advantage of the XK & Golf SatNavs is that the data can be displayed on the behind the wheel dash & the main screen shutdown....which I find aids night vision on unlit roads....my Golf SatNav you can programme on the move...but its the company I work for rule that you dont do this.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
7th Aug 2016 6:08 pm
Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
Yeah, okay, you lost me at the stone thing.
If I were wanting to transport pallets, think I'd be using a truck or a courier TBH.
As for the warranty thing, it's luck, just ask Del, he seems to be responsible for Warranty Directs low share price.
Hey for some Ford has snob value over Fiat, marks and Spencer over Farmsfoods. It's all relative.
As for the Satnav, I can't explain your satisfaction with it, it defies logic and yes, Horoscopes and Cartoons would be handy.
Bet your the sort of guy that keeps people late at Friday afternoon meetings when everyone wants to go home.
7th Aug 2016 6:30 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6272
Okay I'll pop back later once all the bulls t has died down.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
7th Aug 2016 7:39 pm
dubbs
Member Since: 18 Apr 2012
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 3626
D4 satnav is "ok"
D5 satnav will be "better"
Tomtom better than both
D5 will have many of the mod cons that the majority of its target audience want.
Don't get sour grapes because you're no longer part of that target audience and require something different.
I feared the D5 would be too much like its DS, RRS little brothers but there's hope it'll differentiate itself yet. I can even tell a DS from an evoque quite easily now whereas when they first came out I struggled somewhat down to our perception.
D5 will be great but I'm yet to be convinced it'll be great for ME. Hence we have the best of the last sitting on the drive.
If it can be as practical as our current vehicles, improve the idiosyncrasies of the systems we have (like the surround camera balls up where LR couldn't design the issue out so fudged it and screwed the customers), and provide some innovative engine choices then I think with 2-300kg weight saving as well it could be a huge winner...
.... Except for the split tailgate! MY15 DIY Black Pack (Better than factory and half the price!)
Prospeed rock/tree sliders w/steps
HSE Winter wheels
TransK9 B24
Travall Cargo Guard
Hatchbag
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