Member Since: 24 Mar 2013
Location: Derbyshire
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this is interesting we are toying with ordering a VW Caddy Life. Its a Caddy Van with a smaller cargo area but has 5 seats. So technically its not a car derived van but a van derived car, think I may need to check before I sign on the dotted line don't want to be stuck at 60mph!MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten
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10th May 2016 9:09 pm
D4Comm
Member Since: 08 Dec 2007
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 317
I just stick to car limits, I'm not sure the Rozzers know the difference apart from maybe when they do a pnc check. Stupid thing is, the max payload on the commercial is about the same as 5 'healthy' adult rear seat passengers + luggage in a car version.
I had a feeling that with a car derived van you were also restricted to using lanes 1 & 2 only on 3 lane carriageways? Or is that just with a trailer on?11 RR 4.4 TDV8
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10th May 2016 9:23 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20826
Stupid thing is, a Corsa van can do 70, but a Combo can only do 60, despite being identical besides a higher roof
The lower limits apply to those with a vehicle classification of M1 (I believe) on the V5 My D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6270
My brother got done by a mobile speed camera doing 67mph on a dual carriageway in his 2.6t Transit Sport.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
10th May 2016 9:37 pm
Mogwyth
Member Since: 03 Oct 2014
Location: Pwllheli
Posts: 3976
From the DVLA:
Car-derived vans are designed to weigh no more than 2 tonnes when loaded and are based on car designs (eg Ford Fiesta, Vauxhall Corsa), or the vehicle is built from a platform which has been designed to be built as a car or a van.==================================
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10th May 2016 9:41 pm
MGCarr
Member Since: 15 Jul 2014
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 703
Re: Discovery Commercial Speed Limits
BL4DE wrote:
What is the definitive answer on speed limits in the UK for Disco Commercial?
Have any commercial owners been caught out?
Having got some of my transport law books out it looks like it all comes down to the unladen weight of a Discovery Commercial, there are only 4 types of vehicles that are not affected by the lower speed limits that apply to commercial vehicles, these are:-
1) cars- it is clearly not a car, if you are VAT registered it meets all the requirements for you to be able to recover the VAT and therefore must be a commercial vehicle.
2) motorhomes not exceeding 3.05 tonnes unladen weight- unless it is fitted with the proscribed items such as fitted cooking equipment, fitted bed arrangements, on board water etc and the registration changed to 'motorhome' it's not a motorhome.
3) car derived van under 2 tonnes gross vehicle weight- the plated gross weight of a Discovery Commercial is significantly higher than 2 tonnes.
4) dual purpose vehicles under 2.04 tonnes unladen weight- as a 4x4 the Discovery Commercial certainly meets the qualification of a dual purpose vehicle but whether it's unladen weight could be got under 2.04 tonnes I don't know, certainly the Discovery 2 and the Defender 110 & 90 could -I have done it- but whether a Discovery 3/4 could I don't know, it is a bit of a fatty. If you could achieve the required unladen weight by stripping out things like the spare wheel, redundant electric window motors in the rear doors etc I would recommend carrying a copy of the weighbridge certificate with you.
On the subject of getting caught most if not all fixed speed cameras are set for the car limits as it is too much aggro to change them to commercial vehicle speed limits and then filter out the cars that are traveling at legal speeds. Your only risk is a speed trap being run by a really switched on traffic cop who can tell the difference between a Discovery Commercial and any other Discovery and I suspect these are very few and far between.
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Last edited by MGCarr on 11th May 2016 1:49 am. Edited 1 time in total
11th May 2016 1:37 am
MGCarr
Member Since: 15 Jul 2014
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 703
RDR wrote:
this is interesting we are toying with ordering a VW Caddy Life. Its a Caddy Van with a smaller cargo area but has 5 seats. So technically its not a car derived van but a van derived car, think I may need to check before I sign on the dotted line don't want to be stuck at 60mph!
This is a really grey area, I believe that some of the southern police forces have actually prosecuted drivers of vehicles such as the Citroen Berlingo van because it originally came out as a van and the car version came out later but unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, no one has challenged one of these prosecutions so there is no case law to work from.
1997 Defender 90 for the kids and I to have a go at some competitive off road RTV and Tyro trials, daughter picked up her first trophy over the August Bank Holiday.
Previous Land Rover history
1996 P38 4.6 V8 Autobiography
1996 Discovery TDi 300
1972 Range Rover 3.5 V8
LWB Hard Top Series 3
LWB Truck Cab Series 2A
Not been without a Land Rover for over 40 years - I must need therapy!
11th May 2016 1:45 am
MGCarr
Member Since: 15 Jul 2014
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 703
D4Comm wrote:
I just stick to car limits, I'm not sure the Rozzers know the difference apart from maybe when they do a pnc check. Stupid thing is, the max payload on the commercial is about the same as 5 'healthy' adult rear seat passengers + luggage in a car version.
I had a feeling that with a car derived van you were also restricted to using lanes 1 & 2 only on 3 lane carriageways? Or is that just with a trailer on?
With a car derived van you are only restricted to lanes 1&2 when towing a trailer.
1997 Defender 90 for the kids and I to have a go at some competitive off road RTV and Tyro trials, daughter picked up her first trophy over the August Bank Holiday.
Previous Land Rover history
1996 P38 4.6 V8 Autobiography
1996 Discovery TDi 300
1972 Range Rover 3.5 V8
LWB Hard Top Series 3
LWB Truck Cab Series 2A
Not been without a Land Rover for over 40 years - I must need therapy!
11th May 2016 1:48 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
No vehicle is allowed in lane 3 when towing.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 12 Feb 2013
Location: Fife
Posts: 6528
Slightly off topic,
But what about those Mitsubishi/Nissan + other pick ups running about?
I was always led to believe that they were classed as " commercial vehicles " even though most will carry no more than the weeks shopping.
In McGarr's post, I've got a D2 commercial but am not vat registered so is it not classed as a commercial for me?
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11th May 2016 7:22 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
They are limited to the commercial vehicle speed limits. When a friend of mine bought his double cab the dealer handed him a big warning booklet from Nissan covering the lower speed limits and all the details on weights etc.
Most of the reviews on these vehicles mention the rules these days, but not all. A couple of years ago pretty much nothing was mentioned in the literature or magazine reviews, even though they were being marketed to car buyers as a 'lifestyle' vehicle:
Quote:
Vans AND pick-ups
Heres where the confusion might arise. If youve just bought a shiny new Mitsubishi L200, Nissan Navara, Toyota Hilux or other double-cab pickup, youd best pay attention.
The typical 60mph single-carriageway and 70mph dual-carriageway limits do not apply to double-cab pickups. Instead, these vehicles, like their commercial panel van cousins, are restricted to no more than 50mph on single-carriageway roads, and 60mph on dual-carriageways. The 70mph motorway limit still applies.
Theres some confusion as to whether double-cab vehicles are exempt from these lower limits through the governments dual-purpose law, but carwow can confirm this isnt the case. We spoke to Mitsubishi after testing the L200 Barbarian Black, and they returned this statement:
The L200 would only be treated as a passenger car or dual-purpose vehicle if its total laden weight is under 2 tonnes. As our double cab will exceed that weight with a load, it is treated as an LGV (light goods vehicle).
As all dual-cab pickups on the market today have broadly similar weight capacities, this law will apply to any of the L200s rivals. They may often be marketed to car buyers, but as we pointed out in our review – these are still commercial vehicles at heart.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 02 Aug 2014
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 1517
That quote doesn't seem quite right.
The 2 tonne limit is unladen, as seen in this quote from the DVLA website.
"A dual purpose vehicle is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods and designed to weigh no more than 2,040 kg when unladen, and is either:
constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine is, or can be selected to be, transmitted to all wheels of the vehicle
or
permanently fitted with a rigid roof, at least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat and will have side and rear windows - there must also be a minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas"
Mitsubishi seem to be confusing the car derived van rules (weigh no more than 2 tonnes when laden) and the dual purpose vehicles.
11th May 2016 9:37 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
The rules are a mess and I know when a bunch of car magazines and a federation of commercial vehicle suppliers tried to clarify the matter with DfT they were unable to do so. But as I understand it the key point up for debate is that only 'car derived vans' are allowed to travel at the same speeds as cars. Some government sources say that if your goods-capable vehicle does not fit into that definition then the lower speed limits apply. Other official sources say otherwise.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
The daft thing is the Internet is full of these discussions going back over a decade yet here we are in 2016 with one bit of the government saying the higher limit only applies to car-derived vans and another saying that the higher limits can apply to dual-use vehicles.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
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