Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26701
Front tyre wear
Fellow D3 owners, could you be so good as to go and look at your front tyres, and tell me whether they are wearing more on the inside edge? Mine are.
This could be down to my driving style which can be described as 'adventurous' but I just want to rule out any tracking inaccuracy. The car drives and steers OK, maybe a slight pull left, but I think that is normal on the road camber in the UK. There are a lot of by-passes, with roundabouts and long curves round my area, so it may be that.
Car is on 25000 miles now, and front tyres are 50% for most of the tread, but 75% worn on a band around the inside 1 inch of both front tyres.
30th Sep 2005 6:41 pm
Coffeecup
Member Since: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Middleton, Manchester
Posts: 1084
Just been out into the rain to take a look for you.
Mine has done 15,000 miles and I'd say that there is little difference between the outside and the inside edge tread. However, what little difference there is, shows that the inside 1/3rd is more warn than the outside 1/3rd. Something I myself wouldn't consider unreasonable with a vehicle like ours with it's weight and power-steering, though if it got noticably worse I wouldn't be happy.
I wonder if the dealer will swap them front to back at the service next week, or is that an old-fashioned approach these days!
18" wheels with Goodyear Wranglers. Coffeecup March 2005 TDV6 S - Tonga Green - Manual May 2008 TDV6 SE - Stornoway Grey - Auto Dec 2010 SDV6 XS - Galway Green - Auto
30th Sep 2005 6:51 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26701
I'll swap my own, and probably crash the suspension computer in the process!
30th Sep 2005 6:55 pm
BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
Gareth wrote:
I'll swap my own, and probably crash the suspension computer in the process!
When the car is lifted from the chassis the front wheels really go in, so wear could be more and of course you tow a reasonably heavy metal tent on occassions. This could all add to excessive wear.
30th Sep 2005 8:11 pm
Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
Mine were swapped Left to right not front to back. I have noticed a rumble since so I guess the tyre wear is uneven at 15kDS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
30th Sep 2005 11:25 pm
Winger Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
I wondered about this, and had the tracking checked. It was all in order. I still think that there is greater inside wear on the two front tyres. The camber can be adjusted - so if you are really concerned, take the vehicle back to the dealer, as only they can properly deal with camber settings. This is on my to do list.
1st Oct 2005 12:04 am
FlOwner
Member Since: 30 Jul 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 41
Winger wrote:
I wondered about this, and had the tracking checked. It was all in order. I still think that there is greater inside wear on the two front tyres. The camber can be adjusted - so if you are really concerned, take the vehicle back to the dealer, as only they can properly deal with camber settings. This is on my to do list.
The Camber cannot be adjusted in these vehicles.
I have a tread going on inside tyre wear. see the tyres.
1st Oct 2005 12:16 am
Winger Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
I hate to be a pedant, but suggest you are misguided. The camber is adjustable on both front and rear suspension.
Rear wheel camber and toe is adjustable; front wheel camber, toe and castor is adjustable.
1st Oct 2005 7:52 am
BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
Winger wrote:
I hate to be a pedant, but suggest you are misguided. The camber is adjustable on both front and rear suspension.
Rear wheel camber and toe is adjustable; front wheel camber, toe and castor is adjustable.
Yes all can be adjusted, but it is a big job and inner wheel wear was a big initial problem when the research teams were testing the prototypes in the USA. I believe the adjustment is quite limited though.
1st Oct 2005 8:50 am
Winger Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
It takes very little camber adjustment to affect the wear on a tyre from inner to outer.
One point on this - suspension ride height must be accurately set. If it isn't tyre wear is impacted.
1st Oct 2005 10:15 am
FlOwner
Member Since: 30 Jul 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 41
BN wrote:
Winger wrote:
I hate to be a pedant, but suggest you are misguided. The camber is adjustable on both front and rear suspension.
Rear wheel camber and toe is adjustable; front wheel camber, toe and castor is adjustable.
Yes all can be adjusted, but it is a big job and inner wheel wear was a big initial problem when the research teams were testing the prototypes in the USA. I believe the adjustment is quite limited though.
It would be much appreciated if you could tell me where you got the information on the inner wheel wear, thanks.
You are right I should have said the camber is not meant to be adjusted in these vehicles, camber cannot be adjusted is what my dealer said. I would be interested to hear what the response is from your dealer when you bring up the camber issue.
I spoke to a few mechanics about it and they said the process involves alterations to the frame and it's very expensive. It's cheaper for the dealer to give you free tyers until the warranty expires. Also if it is not done correctly it can severely damage your vehicle.
A couple of independent alignment\tyre shops suggest upping the pressure. They think 33 psi is too low for a 3ton vehicle. Note the loaner LR3 that I'm in also has inside edge tyre wear. and its pressure is at 40psi front and back.
See the Nissian, people are suing them over the Negative Camber wear.
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
My last input on this subject:
It isn't an especially complex or big job to adjust the wheel alignment. It does not involve adjustments to the frame, is not expensive and won't cause vehicle damage; you are being sold a dummy.
(Interesting point, though, about tyre pressures, but if the camber is still off won't increased pressure make no difference? I'll ponder on that whilst I am splitting some logs.)
FlOwner, if your dealer seems unclear about what to do, print this off and give it to him.
The process for 4-wheel alignment is as follows:
1. Check the tie rod ends, suspension joints, wheel bearings and wheels and tires for damage, wear and free play.
Adjust or repair any worn, damaged or incorrectly adjusted components.
2. Check and adjust tire pressures.
3. Position the vehicle on a calibrated, level, vehicle lift.
4. Release the vehicle parking brake.
5. Check the air suspension ride height.
6. NOTE:
If rear camber adjustment is required, loosen the rear camber adjustment bolts enough to allow adjustment before starting any other wheel alignment adjustments. Do not fully loosen the rear camber adjustment bolts.
Using only four wheel alignment equipment approved by Land Rover, check and adjust the wheel alignment.
7. CAUTION: Make sure the toe link anti-rotation tang is fully seated in the integrated body frame before tightening the toe link retaining nut. Failure to follow this instruction will result in damage to the toe link or integrated body frame.
NOTE:
This step is only required if the toe links have been removed or replaced.
Adjust the rear bump steer.
Loosen the toe link inner ball joint retaining nut.
Set the gap, between the underside of the toe link rubber boot and the integrated body frame bracket, to 10 mm (0.473 in).
Tighten the toe link inner ball joint retaining nut to 133 Nm (98 lb.ft)
Repeat the above procedure for the other side.
8. NOTE:
The rear camber adjustment bolts cannot be fully tightened with the rear wheels installed. Do not remove the rear wheels to tighten the rear camber adjustment bolts until all other wheel alignment adjustments have been completed.
Adjust the rear camber.
Loosen the rear camber adjusting bolts.
Rotate the rear camber adjusting bolt until the correct value is obtained.
Repeat the above procedure for the other side.
Tighten the rear camber adjusting bolts.
9. Adjust the rear toe.
Loosen the toe link adjustment locking nut.
Rotate the toe link inner ball joint until the correct rear toe value is obtained.
Tighten the toe link adjustment locking nut to 130 Nm (96 lb.ft).
Repeat the above procedure for the other side.
Repeat the rear toe measurement.
10. Adjust the front camber.
Loosen the lower arm front camber adjusting bolt.
Rotate the front camber adjusting bolt until the correct value is obtained.
Tighten the lower arm front camber adjusting bolt to 275 Nm (203 lb.ft).
Repeat the above procedure for the other side.
11. Adjust the front castor.
Loosen the lower arm rear castor adjusting bolt.
Rotate the castor adjusting bolt until the correct value is obtained.
Tighten the lower arm rear castor adjusting bolt.
Repeat the above procedure for the other side.
Repeat the castor measurement.
Repeat the above procedure until both castors achieve the correct value.
Tighten the lower arm rear castor adjusting bolts to 275 Nm (203 lb.ft).
12. Align the steering to straight ahead.
Measure the length of the exposed thread on each track rod.
If the exposed thread lengths differ by more than two millimeters:
Stage one: Loosen one track rod end locking nut.
Stage two: Rotate the track rod until the lengths of the exposed threads on both track rods are equal.
Stage three: Tighten the track rod end locking nut.
Stage four: Rotate the steering wheel until both front toe measurements are equal.
13. If the steering wheel is more than three degrees from the straight ahead position, remove the steering wheel and reposition on the nearest spline to the straight ahead position.
Align the steering wheel to straight ahead.
14. Adjust the front toe.
Loosen the track rod end locking nuts.
Rotate the track rods to adjust each individual front toe to the correct value.
Tighten the track rod end locking nuts to 53 Nm (39 lb.ft).
15. Check the air suspension ride height.
16. Check, and if necessary, repeat the wheel alignment procedure until the correct values are obtained.
17. Raise and support the vehicle.
18. Remove the rear wheels and tires.
19. Tighten the rear camber adjusting bolts to 133 Nm (98 lb.ft).
20. Install the wheels and tires.
Tighten the wheel nuts to 140 Nm (103 lb.ft).
21. Calibrate the steering angle sensor using T4.
There you have it is 21, easy-to-follow, steps.
Now tell me that the camber cannot, shouldn't or isn't designed to be adjusted!
1st Oct 2005 11:07 am
FlOwner
Member Since: 30 Jul 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 41
Winger, thanks for your reply. Do you know where I cand find the adjustment bolts?
I'm wondering if the vehicles sold in North America are missing the Camber adjustments.
I wonder if they in same place as lockable gas cap and tow receiver in the North American Models.
1st Oct 2005 1:22 pm
Winger Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
FlOwner wrote:
Winger, thanks for your reply. Do you know where I cand find the adjustment bolts?
I'm wondering if the vehicles sold in North America are missing the Camber adjustments.
I wonder if they in same place as lockable gas cap and tow receiver in the North American Models.
I would be surprised if they suspension on the NA vehicles is any different from that this side of the herring pond - but I am prepared to be surprised!
Get on your knees at the front of the vehicle and look underneath. You will see that there is a large plate covering the underside of the engine compartment. On either side of the leading edge of this plate you will see where the lower front suspension arm attaches to the chassis frame - the camber adjustment nuts are those that attach the arm to the chassis - you will notice that the nut appears to be off-centre from the washer behind; this is normal. When you loosen the nut, you can then turn the adjustment bolt and articulate the lower suspension arm in or out to adjust the camber - the bolt sits in a banana shaped slot.
Hope that helps you.
1st Oct 2005 1:40 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26701
Further observation
Cleaning the car yesterday, I also noted that the Right REAR tyre is also badly worn on the inside edge, the Left rear is evenly worn. This is more worrying.
I also noted that the lower wishbones are secured by a cam bolt system which should allow for adjustment. Will go and see the dealer asap.
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