Member Since: 20 Sep 2005
Location: Home and Happy
Posts: 6917
I let mine warm up gently and ALWAYS let it warm down - just feels the right thing to do.
Rarely taken above 2300 RPM
Oil checked daily (dead easy on D4)
Use JASO FC 2T on each fill up and also used Hess's additive - fingers crossed all OK as plan to keep her for sometime yet (best car I've ever had luck and pleasure to own)
13th Oct 2013 9:53 am
747_JK
Member Since: 03 Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 268
steveraspberry: Thank you, interesting to note you have had so many D4s and not experienced this issue on any. May I ask, have you ever had one up to a mileage of around 30 - 40k, when the issue showed on my second engine? On face-value, could it be argued that if you are changing your motor this often, you don't give them time to develop the smoke problem, or are you operating a fleet of them?
Oh - and a point to all - it should be noted that I have never added any kind of fuel additives, nor has my engine ever been re-mapped. It's all very, very standard.747_JK
"Moab is my happy place"
2019 Land Rover Discovery 5 HSE
2015 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE - SOLD
2010 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE with a serious smoking habit - SOLD
13th Oct 2013 9:56 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Having never driven your car or compared it to others I have no technical opinion.
What is clear though is that you have exhausted all avenues with Land Rover and to be honest you probably achieved this point some time ago. Unless the analysis and comparative tests comes from an independent expert then from this point onwards you are challenging the breeze with your bodily fluids.
Your options:
- Give up and keep the car
- Give up and sell the car
- Personally invest in a full independent test with a company that LR are happy to treat as an arbiter
Given the age of the car and the effort to date I would personally pick option 1 or option 2. I am sorry this episode has been so distressing.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 18 Mar 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 931
some hard advice
By the sound of your posts it's been a long, stressful process so far. Do you have a personal attachment to the car,other than money?
Personally, if mine starts giving me the kind of grief you've been through, then I'll walk away from it and cut my stress level, regardless of the cost.
13th Oct 2013 7:05 pm
MHP
Member Since: 31 Dec 2011
Location: lydd
Posts: 2776
We had a similar issue with our first D4 but it smoked when the driver put his/hers foot down after driving normally for a while. I will try to find the thread for you 2009 Discovery 3 HSE - Gone
2019 Anniversary Edition D5 - Going
2019 HSE D5 - coming!
13th Oct 2013 7:16 pm
MHP
Member Since: 31 Dec 2011
Location: lydd
Posts: 2776
I know its a slightly different issue but still a smoking so could be related. Hope it helps 2009 Discovery 3 HSE - Gone
2019 Anniversary Edition D5 - Going
2019 HSE D5 - coming!
13th Oct 2013 7:28 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20841
When the original engine expired, did it have any new injectors, or any part of the fuel system replaced?
How long after the smoking started, did the engine fail?
When you rev it, it smokes. If you leave it sitting for a few minutes, it smokes again
What happens when you rev it, let the revs drop, and rev it again. Does it still smoke then?My D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 03 Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 268
Robbie / motolite: Yes, it's frustrating, but when you part with more than £50k for a car, and plan to run it for a certain period of time, then I'm prepared to push for my rights and expect it to operate as the manufacturer intended. I choose to drive a D4 for, strangely, medical reasons - the car allows me to drive in comfort, even doing Manchester & back from London in a day, without being in agony at the end of the day. I don't have the need, really, for a 4x4 - but it enables me to drive in comfort in ways my previous BMWs didn't. The seating position is spot on. It's the sole reason I have this car.
A few months after the first engine had failed, Land Rover's Customer Relationship Centre called me up and invited my wife and I on a 4/5 night (I forget which) 5-star 4x4 driving holiday with them to Spain. It included two nights at a Shangri-La hotel, and at least a couple of nights 'comfortable camping'. We'd have been given a D4 to partake in the journey, and it did sound truly awesome. I don't believe this is something LR offer all its customers - just those who have, presumably, had big problems with their cars. The fact I was offered it probably goes to show that Land Rover felt I'd been very patient as a customer.
Back in 2011 I turned down this opportunity due to prior commitments, but I looked the trip up online and to have bought 2 places to attend was big money. I'd much rather LR put the several thousand I saved them by not going on holiday with them, and simply fitted a new engine to my car which didn't smoke!
Russell's son: Thanks for sharing the threads. I actually spoke to your Dad on the phone on a couple of occasions when he was having the same issues as me, all the way back in 2010.
Disco_Mikey: When the original engine expired, I recall the dealer found small pieces of metal in the sump, broken bearings, and the torque converter / fly wheel were ‘shot’. I don't, so far as I know, recall any part of the fuel system being replaced.
On the original engine, the smoking was first noticed in May 2010 (when there were just 2-3k on the clock). The engine failed in December 2010. When it failed, the car had done just 14k miles.
The 2nd engine was smokeless from Feb 2011 until April 2013. From memory, that's about 35k miles on the second engine before the smoking came back.
And in answer to your final question, if I accelerate, brake, and then accelerate again in quick succession it will still smoke. The quickest gap in this sequence has been about 40 seconds. I've not tried anything quicker. Thanks for your interest.747_JK
"Moab is my happy place"
2019 Land Rover Discovery 5 HSE
2015 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE - SOLD
2010 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE with a serious smoking habit - SOLD
13th Oct 2013 8:28 pm
Barn1e D3 Decade
Member Since: 28 Aug 2006
Location: Mid-sussex
Posts: 2021
Sorry to read about this saga. Reading it made me think about the things that had not been replaced when the new engine went in.
What ancillary parts remained and could possibly have contributed the "failure" of both engines? I am thinking about mechanical bits and software that could in some way have contributed to the problem.
The other constant of course during the period of both engines is driving behaviour, but you have confirmed that this was normal.2005, TDV6 S, Auto, 190k miles, owned from new, V8 Brake Upgrade, Nancom Evo, RLD protector, BAS EGR blanking & Remap, separate ATF cooler, changing all the fluids ahead of time.
13th Oct 2013 9:37 pm
RAW
Member Since: 14 Oct 2008
Location: Devon
Posts: 936
If it smoking that bad take it to a mot station and get a emissions test carried out as if it fails that then LR would have to look at your issues. If it is within the legal guidelines then I doubt there is anything you can do.MY18 RRS Autobiography Fuji White
MY15 D4 silver Commercial
MY11 D4 Fuji White Landmark (Gone)
MY11 D4 Silver Commercial(Gone)
Isuzu Utah D Max(Gone)
John Deere Gator HPX
Nifty Lift HR12
Kubota KX41-2
14th Oct 2013 6:58 am
Sloss
Member Since: 18 Aug 2013
Location: Aberdeenish
Posts: 1691
Re: all the piston rings..
BLFarrar wrote:
Petrol engines benefit from upper cylinder lubricants (Redex being just one & probably the best)...
I use Redex in my D3 hoping the benefit of adding a lubricant that finds its way in from the combustion space as opposed to the engine oil...
Redex will work in a carburettor petrol engine much better than a Fuel Injection one as it gets time to get condensed out of the intake air as it gets compressed prior to the firing stroke.
However in both Petrol Injection & Diesel Injection systems the Redex is a component of the fuel and gets burnt off, I doubt it does any 'upper cylinder lubrication' in Injection engines.
Redex put into the fuel tank will help lubricate the fuel system where there are high pressures and tight clearances so may be of 'some' limited assistance there. Diesel has it's own lubricity anyway.
Commenting on Supermarket and own brand fuels. If you visit the Grangemouth Distribution Depot you will see lorries of all brands fill up from the same Storage Tks. The only differences are the 'Nitro' and other 'Super' breathed on type fuels. I'm not sure how they segregate them Stew,
2010 D4 gone but I really loved it
Went back to Merc - C350 AMG
14th Oct 2013 11:20 am
747_JK
Member Since: 03 Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 268
Headed out to the shops this evening.... Choke, choke, splutter, splutter...
http://youtu.be/HwbdIhrbUmE747_JK
"Moab is my happy place"
2019 Land Rover Discovery 5 HSE
2015 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE - SOLD
2010 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE with a serious smoking habit - SOLD
this specific blue smoke issue...is something to do with sump oil burning i.e. the engine is using too much oil
at this milage it isn't acceptable.
I too wonder whats common across the two engines other than the car body & the driver (not being uncomplimentary here but to problem solve properly & effectively - you have to consider everything)
I agree that Redex does burn up & give off a vivid cloud of blue smoke...but its meant to lubricate & free up the piston rings...it does do that.......just try some on a fouled up spark plug...its virtually instant.
It also works on valves in the engine & anything in the induction system.
If there was a way to insert it to a stopped engine (I agree a diesel poses a problem) to an engine that is warm & the Redex left to "soak"......it has an amazing effect. I have used this on aged & part petrol engines many times...Redex applied through spark plug holes.
But it does give clouds of acrid blue smoke when engine started...not good environmentally & just the thing to really pis$ your neighbours off permanentlyBREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
15th Oct 2013 9:34 pm
YT
Member Since: 27 Sep 2013
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 221
Sorry to hear of your plight. It seems that you are falling out of love with your D4. It would appear from what's been written that LR are now washing their hands and it seems that you may be ( and I do hope I'm wrong here) continuing with the fight in the same way as you have been doing for some time.
I think you've had some good advice on this thread but if you are going to keep the car then you need to enter in to some agreed third party tests, which I'm afraid would likely be binding on both parties if terms could be worked through. In an ideal world the new examiner will find the fault and a mutually acceptable solution could be achieved but if it doesn't go in your favour, at least you know where you stand. And if it were me I wouldn't want to be holding on to the car once outside the extended warranty period just in case what you are worried about comes true.
Finally, for very obvious reasons this has got to you as it probably would do me but your health is too important for you to allow it to eat you up. If you don't want to go down this route you could always ask LR to make a exceptional buy back offer to take into account your problems so far.
Good luck SteveAll that I Pay my Psychiatrist is the price of Feed and Hay.....and he listens to me All Day
Gone 2013 Hse Lux
Gone 2013 FFRR AB
Gone 2014 FFRR SE
Current 2015 FFRR SE
the same thing happens in the Jag XF, Peugeot, Citroen & others with the same engine ?BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
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petrol engines many times...Redex applied through spark plug holes.
