Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26779
I think the more off-road grip a tyre has, then it will probably be noisier on the road, and if it has more on-road grip, it will wear quicker. So the Michelins are probably a little more road biased then the GY's
18th Oct 2005 10:35 pm
FlOwner
Member Since: 30 Jul 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 41
I have increased the pressure in my tyres in hopes that it will offset some of the camber wear. I put 46psi in my front and 49 psi in the rear. Not sure if this will work but from what I understand it won't hurt too much. I'll let you know how it works out.
One a side note I had another Ford and it had terrible inside wear. No one could fix it. I eventually gave the car to my sister who inflates her tyres to what's on the side wall. Guess what no more inside tyre wear. We all know that’s not the correct pressure, but when I owned the vehicle I replaced tyres once a year every 12k. and she get's even wear
18th Oct 2005 11:14 pm
AN
Member Since: 26 Jul 2005
Location: Hungary
Posts: 327
Gareth,
I was looking at Michelins a month ago on the Net, and on www.michelin.co.uk looks like they offer 19' Synchrone in UK.
Regards, ANLR D3 S Black, Auto TDV6
19th Oct 2005 8:27 am
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26779
I think I will get some of these at replacement time.
19th Oct 2005 8:46 am
Winger Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
On the subject of tyre pressures, I have always been confused why a vehicle manufacturer can put a sticker on the car with the tyre pressures, yet each make of tyre must have its own characteristic....33lbs on a Pirrelli may not be the same as 33lbs on a Wrangler, fo example.
It this twisted logic?
Another question, is there a correlation between this inner edge tyre wear and a particular tyre make? I have Scorpion Zeros on mine.
19th Oct 2005 12:14 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26779
I have a theory on this.
My Disco 2 had ACE (automatic cornering enhancement). It did work well, and kept the body totally level around corners. That car had beam axles therefore the wheels would always be vertical compared to the road surface, even when going around a roundabout at speed. The D2 wore its tyres evenly. If anything it was the outside edges of the fronts which got scrubbed slightly.
My Disco 3 has not got ACE and rolls in corners, not much, but it does roll more than D2. It also has independant suspension, which by its nature will camber the rear wheels inwards at the top on suspension compression. When I go around a right hand bend, the left rear wheel gets compressed, and right hand bend vice versa. This must constantly alter the angle of the tyre to the road, it is not necessarily a bad thing because the outside wheel gets angled into the bend, and in theory this would counter any tendency for the tyre to roll sideways in relation to the rim.
I would also think that the LR engineers designed this geometry to provide a bit of passive rear wheel steer. This could be what accounts for the unusual wear on one of my rear tyres.
I think I am right in saying that because of roundabouts, the average British driver turns right more than left.
One thing you will notice about the Michelins is they have a more rounded shoulder than the goodyears. Maybe they will wear better as a result.
19th Oct 2005 12:40 pm
FlOwner
Member Since: 30 Jul 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 41
Winger wrote:
On the subject of tyre pressures, I have always been confused why a vehicle manufacturer can put a sticker on the car with the tyre pressures, yet each make of tyre must have its own characteristic....33lbs on a Pirrelli may not be the same as 33lbs on a Wrangler, fo example.
It this twisted logic?
Another question, is there a correlation between this inner edge tyre wear and a particular tyre make? I have Scorpion Zeros on mine.
If you go to the Ford website they even say that their recommended pressure is the minimum recommended. The maximum load carry of these tyres is at 50psi. (http://www.ford.com/en/innovation/safety/tireSafety.htm)
From what I understand the manufacture recommended pressure of these tires is for the best handling not the best wear, which would make sense negative camber produces better handling. Also helps them pass some static tilt test. ( see Ford Explorer )
I think if you up the pressure you move some of stress off the inside edge to the center.
I would rather not have to deal with this at all. All I got out of my dealer is that the Michelin are tougher tyre and more capable of handling the negative camber. Question why does Land Rover put a tyre on they know will not wear well.
Last edited by FlOwner on 19th Oct 2005 12:51 pm. Edited 1 time in total
19th Oct 2005 12:45 pm
Winger Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
Did you get them to admit that the camber was adjustable?
19th Oct 2005 12:46 pm
Winger Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
Gareth wrote:
I have a theory on this.
My Disco 2 had ACE (automatic cornering enhancement). It did work well, and kept the body totally level around corners. That car had beam axles therefore the wheels would always be vertical compared to the road surface, even when going around a roundabout at speed. The D2 wore its tyres evenly. If anything it was the outside edges of the fronts which got scrubbed slightly.
My Disco 3 has not got ACE and rolls in corners, not much, but it does roll more than D2. It also has independant suspension, which by its nature will camber the rear wheels inwards at the top on suspension compression. When I go around a right hand bend, the left rear wheel gets compressed, and right hand bend vice versa. This must constantly alter the angle of the tyre to the road, it is not necessarily a bad thing because the outside wheel gets angled into the bend, and in theory this would counter any tendency for the tyre to roll sideways in relation to the rim.
I would also think that the LR engineers designed this geometry to provide a bit of passive rear wheel steer. This could be what accounts for the unusual wear on one of my rear tyres.
I think I am right in saying that because of roundabouts, the average British driver turns right more than left.
One thing you will notice about the Michelins is they have a more rounded shoulder than the goodyears. Maybe they will wear better as a result.
I liked ACE too..
Gareth, I think you make some very good points. One of the interesting elements of the four-wheel alignment process is that you have to check the suspension calibration at the end of the process, then check the alignment again.....and adjust as necessary, ad infinitum, until no further adjustment is required. I've been told that the alignment is withing tolerance, so now I guess I need to get the suspension calibration checked.
19th Oct 2005 12:50 pm
FlOwner
Member Since: 30 Jul 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 41
Winger wrote:
Did you get them to admit that the camber was adjustable?
The dealer said they complained to Land Rover about what to do. And Land Rover response to them was the tyres get what they get. And told the dealer to prorate them as needed.
Did not want to get into an argument with the Service Manager and Center Manager both emphatically said the Camber can not be adjusted and per them it was in spec anyway. At least they are not trying to charge for alignments and blaming me for the problem
Also a guy on this side of the pond put some Nitto Terra Grapplers on his and is still getting uneven wear.
It would be great if we can get to bottom of the tyre wear.
Also my dealer as upped the pressure on their vehicle's to 40psi could not get a stright answer as to why. And the 06 Hse also had 40 psi in when I took delivery.
Last edited by FlOwner on 19th Oct 2005 1:49 pm. Edited 2 times in total
19th Oct 2005 1:05 pm
Winger Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
I am going to try 38lbs in the front and 40lbs in the rear, and see what difference it makes. At the moment, the wear is really confined to the outer edge/shoulder of the tyre.
All things said, though, it would be good to get a definite answer, at it does seem to be a problem on some vehicles, which suggest misalignment to me.
We will let Gareth be the guinea pig!
19th Oct 2005 1:35 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26779
Thanks I suppose I do enough miles to notice a change quickly.
19th Oct 2005 1:39 pm
nick
Member Since: 10 Apr 2005
Location: Romsey/hampshire
Posts: 87
£100.00 paid......
10 months into warranty, to have this adjusted!!!
No refund from LR, because 12k is to many miles..(outrageous).
Dealer is giving me a discounted first service thou`.. wohoo!
24th Oct 2005 6:28 pm
BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
nick wrote:
£100.00 paid......
10 months into warranty, to have this adjusted!!!
No refund from LR, because 12k is to many miles..(outrageous).
Dealer is giving me a discounted first service thou`.. wohoo!
Nick, did they say what the actual tollerances were?
24th Oct 2005 6:31 pm
nick
Member Since: 10 Apr 2005
Location: Romsey/hampshire
Posts: 87
Nah!
Just that the front and rear were out of line, but when they went to print the rear, nothing came out!!
Mmm, filed in the bin more like!
They were going to post it on to me if they got it to work. But it has`nt arrived yet....
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I suppose I do enough miles to notice a change quickly.
