Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
Just had a reconditioned box fitted to mine as a result of shudder/vibration and harsh gear changes. Much improved smooth changes and no vibration. A bit of a fight with Allianz but we got there.
Since change strange symptom: there is a solenoid noise/click from the gear lever/ centre console area. When in park and you press the brake the solenoid noise louder than is normal but there is a noise and the clunk can be felt through the lever when the revs hit about 2300 rpm. This is obvious when in neutral but can be felt when in sport mode as well.
Any ideas as to what it is, if it is the same solenoid why the 2300 cut in?“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
16th Oct 2010 1:02 am
SteveNorman
Member Since: 14 Oct 2005
Location: Somerset
Posts: 1145
Quote:
Steve - how many have you seen with this radiator/ATF cooler problem?
Well, none I have known fail, but I am now wondering if a small amount of water ingress from the cooler/rad is causing these with judder, hence why a fluid change helps them for bit.
have to do some testing
regards
Steve
18th Oct 2010 8:49 am
lee157
Member Since: 01 Oct 2008
Location: in the middle
Posts: 557
I'm watchimg these posts with a lot of interest as i have a 54 plate D3 and would never be able to afford a bill as hi as that, so i'm also wondering about a preventative measure too.
Is this ATF cooling/heating system actually part of the radiator? or is it a seperate unit all together?
I can't find a good picture from microcat for the D3 but i found that the D4's have a seperate unit all together.
Click image to enlarge
Does anyone know if this is a double skin unit?
Double skin meaning that if it leaks it will leak on the floor and not contaminate the other fluid, unless both sides develope a leak at the same time.
Lee
18th Oct 2010 10:17 am
PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
Hi Lee,
lee157 wrote:
Is this ATF cooling/heating system actually part of the radiator? or is it a seperate unit all together?
Yes - the radiator has a section on the left hand side that is the integrated ATF cooler. I guess it probably isn't double skinned as it needs the contact of the radiator core to be in direct contact with the ATF cooler cores to cool down the fluid.
It's interesting that the 3.0 TDV6 has a separate system, although this may be due to needing extra cooling due to the higher power out of the 3.0 lump?
Of course, the cynics (i.e. us! ) could say that they did this as a fix to get rid of the shared rad/ATF cooler 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE AutoBuckingham Blue 2007 Golf GT DSG
18th Oct 2010 10:21 am
lee157
Member Since: 01 Oct 2008
Location: in the middle
Posts: 557
PaulP wrote:
It's interesting that the 3.0 TDV6 has a separate system, although this may be due to needing extra cooling due to the higher power out of the 3.0 lump?
Hi paul,
You might be right about the D4 needing better cooling due to the higher output, as the 2.7 D4 & 4.0 V6 petrol seem to have the same setup as the D3, but the 3.0 TDV6 & 5.0 V8 petrol have a seperate cooler, this is also the case on the RRS with the 3.6 TDV8 having a seperate cooler also.
I wonder if a D4 cooler could be grafted into a D3???
Lee
18th Oct 2010 10:38 am
discoboy
Member Since: 30 Jan 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 155
If the ATF is a 'sealed for life' unit, why is there so much changing of fluid going on? How did LR determine that the ATF would be sealed for life in the first place? The designers of the AT must have designed the unit with sealed for life in mind but a culprit in the form of water leakage has appeared meaning that the designers did not take into account possible water contamination 5/6 years down the line. Either that or testing of this system has failed. If it is a design fault, then it is now beginning to appear. What about the jag boxes and other makes, are they all 'sealed for life' also and do those owners need to double flush their ATF ?
It would appear that the designers are possibly now taking into account this possible water contamination and provide a separate cooling unit in the D4.
Is the oil spec for the D4 ATF different to the D3 ATF and is the D4 a 'sealed for life' unit??
18th Oct 2010 10:53 am
amondeggs
Member Since: 03 Sep 2009
Location: Telford
Posts: 155
Ok a bit of feedback. I collected my car tonight from the specialist. Very professional service but very expensive day. Really pleased with it based on the short drive home. It drives better now than I have ever known before. I have owned car 18mths and am sure now that it has been on way out since I bought it.
They have fitted a new torque convertor, as old one was damaged by water contamination. They have refurbished the box with new seals, friction surfaces etc etc. Filled with new proper oil and fitted it with seperate ATF cooler in front of the main radiator. They have worked on the car for some 50 hours! I have paid 2750 for all this which is a big hit.
I expect many more of you are going to have the same problems soon. It appears to be a design fault with the radiator that causes this whole issue.
I am no expert but if I was read this and my car was 4-5 years old I would look to either fit a new rad as preventative measure or fit an auxiliary ATF cooler. That way you should not have the big bill I have paid today!!!
Will feedback on how car goes over next few days. Great to have it back. One big grin despite the bill. Cheers
18th Oct 2010 10:33 pm
PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
Any update on this? I'm assuming that they didn't change the radiator and just left the original one in place? Any coolant leaking from it anywhere (asking because they removed the ATF pipes from the side and wondering if it was still losing coolant to this area)?
Does it still seem to have completely cured the problem?
Cheers,
Paul2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE AutoBuckingham Blue 2007 Golf GT DSG
25th Oct 2010 11:43 am
amondeggs
Member Since: 03 Sep 2009
Location: Telford
Posts: 155
Ok update,
I am up in the highlands of scotland at the moment so have done around 600 miles since having the car done.
Paul to clarify they did not change the original radiator but blnaked off the atf part once the hoses were disconnected, They left the original radiator in place and fitted a seperate atf cooler in front of the main radiator.
I dont have any leaks at all and I have checked this methodically.
I believe that the work that I have had done has completely solved the problems that I had. As I said before I think that we are going to see many more posts on the forum about this as members try changing the atf to stop juddering only to find out that it returns.
I will update you all as time goes by but really happy with car at moment it is better than it has ever been before.
25th Oct 2010 7:02 pm
Bodsy Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
When your back Steve, wouldn't mind popping over to have a look at how they've done the ATF cooler Bodsys Brake Bible
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset See It Here
25th Oct 2010 7:05 pm
amondeggs
Member Since: 03 Sep 2009
Location: Telford
Posts: 155
Hi Bodsy,
You are more than welcome to come over and have a look, I have tried to see how they have fitted the atf cooler but space is very tight and I could not see it. I took them 6 hours to fit it so I presume they removed the front bumper to squeeze it in???
The only issue that I have and I have spoken to them about it is how close the atf pipes are to the exhaist of the fuel burning heater. My worry is that the heat couls damage the pipes so they are going to rectify this when I get back. They are doing a 1000 mile service and check on the work they have done.
At least I know that the water and the atf will not mix again.
25th Oct 2010 7:19 pm
PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
Thanks a lot Steve......I know it's tough as you've had to foot the bill, but thanks for sharing with us - it could end up saving some of us a big bill....
I'm just waiting for a price for a new rad to be fitted to mine, followed by (another ) ATF change.
An interesting thing is that I reset the adaptive gearbox data this lunch time and it feels like it slips less, but there's no way to be entirely sure.
What I can say is that the guy from the independant workshop that I was talking to has had major problems with his FFRR TDV8 Vogue and after one year of cocking about, LR finally traced it to water contamination in the ATF.....new radiator and oil cooler (not sure if they are integrated as he didn't know) and all seems to have been fixed....
He almost dropped to the floor when I walked in and mentioned exactly the same "possible" fault on my D3 as LR had said that no other had ever failed......maybe they should speak to ZF about this point....
Cheers,
Paul2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE AutoBuckingham Blue 2007 Golf GT DSG
25th Oct 2010 7:24 pm
slitter
Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: suffolk
Posts: 39
My D3 2006 suffered the exact problem as described by Paul. It felt as if the clutch was slipping on a manual car when it was trying to change in to 4th from 3rd.
When I took it in to HAmmonds in Halesworth they upgraded the software and made it undriveable !
Now I have a hire car whilst they are changing the 'AT control module' I think they are probably changing the solenoid as this seems the most likely fail point.
When I took it in the first thing they checked, after the software version, was water in the ATF, which they assured me was clean and without contaminant. Luckily I am covered because I bought a LR Assured vehicle and so have warranty cover. They supposedly will have it back to me today, and I'll update when it is returned, but they told me they would finish it yesterday, and Friday..............................
I thought I was the only one, you're never alone with a D3 problem.
26th Oct 2010 10:11 am
stapldm
Member Since: 11 Sep 2006
Location: Swine Town
Posts: 2330
slitter wrote:
you're never alone with a D3 problem.
A new advertising slogan if ever I heard one. Glad you're not going to have to pay for the fix, and yes please keep us up to date with what the cause is.Dr. Ian Malcolm:
"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
Transgenic tomato anyone?
26th Oct 2010 10:38 am
Renton
Member Since: 13 Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 1718
PaulP wrote:
An interesting thing is that I reset the adaptive gearbox data this lunch time and it feels like it slips less, but there's no way to be entirely sure.
Paul
Hi Paul,
How do you reset the gearbox?CLUB ILLEGAL CAR WASHERS
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A bit of a fight with Allianz but we got there.
) could say that they did this as a fix to get rid of the shared rad/ATF cooler 
) ATF change.
