2006 D3 TDV6 Auto HSE
I have been battling with the 'Engine System Fault' for a bit now.
After reading up on here I've managed to get to the actuator and I've made sure the actuator is free and not sticky, basically loads of penetration oil and keep working it with that wonderful tool!
It was stiff, not actually seized but certainly not free!
When I had finished it was beautifully smooth, no sticking and easy to move.
I had expected that to be the end of the ESF message but no!
Maybe it has gone lazy?
It seems that when the revs get to 3500+ or so, i.e. when accelerating on a slip road onto dual carriageway the revs rise and suddenly I get the Special Programs Disabled message followed by no power, i.e. limp mode.
An ignition off restores normal running until the next time!
Not for the faint hearted I assure you with the hazards going the whole time!!
DTCs logged by my IID Tool are:
Engine TDV6
P0405-00 (2D) Exhaust gas recirculation sensor A - circuit low
P0100-00 (2D) Mass or volume air flow circuit
P138E-00 (6C) Turbocharger boost control position sensor A - minimum/maximum stop performance
P0234-00 (68) Turbo/supercharger overboost condition
P132B-00 (68) Turbo/supercharger boost control A performance
The EGR sensor an be ignored because they have been blanked off.
Can P0100-00 (2D) Mass or volume air flow circuit be ignored as well?
That leaves us with:
P138E-00 (6C) Turbocharger boost control position sensor A - minimum/maximum stop performance
P0234-00 (68) Turbo/supercharger overboost condition
P132B-00 (68) Turbo/supercharger boost control A performance
Something is seriously wrong with the turbo me thinks1
I can order as replacement from GSF for £665 inc the VAT because of the 57% offer ove the weekend, BUT I need to order it by midnight tonight!
What is the general feeling on this?
My feeling is that it is the actuator, but if this is shot, by the time the turbo has been taken off, it won't be me I'm afraid as my mobility is not good enough, (a bad back and a knee bending restriction)
So by the time the actuator is sourced, and the only price I can see is £558! then a replacement turbo would make sense?
From what I can see and feel all the hoses are OK, I'm taking up to the LR specialist in Cardiff for a smoke test tomorrow as a precursor to more expensive options, but that means the 57% offer passes!
I am a little bit between a rock and a hard place.
Does the Illuminati think that it is down to the turbo?
Ian
21st Jan 2018 3:16 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10549
you shouldn't ignore the Mass or volume air flow if the code keeps coming back. They are easy to change and not expensive second hand (ebay)
But yes your real problem is probably the turbo. A reconditioned one is £350 + labour so I wouldn't worry about that offer!
have you tried looking at/recording live data on turbo boost and airflow?Pete
1965 S2a with Galv Marslands Chassis - Sold (BIG mistake)
1993 200TDi GS Green 5 Seat Manual - Broken
1993 200TDi GS Grey 7 Seat manual - Sold To Defender Owner to Use Engine
1999 TD5 GS Blenheim Silver 5 Seat Manual - Broken
1999 TD5 GS Oxford Blue 7 Seat Auto - Sold
1999 TD5 ES Epsom Green 6 Seat Auto - Sold
2007 D3 2.7 TDV6 XS Java Black 7 Seat Auto
1999 Swift Classic Coronette
2019 BMW X1 AWD Auto - SWMBO's Car
All very valued points re the Mass air flow etc.
Now I get very confused, bear with old brain is my excuse, but the MAF is the one nearest the air filter?
When I checked the air filter, it was brand spanking new, so the seller hadn't told a porky when they said that they had changed oil, and filters!
But the MAF 'looked' OK no dirt or any contaminates on or around it.
The volume one is the one on top of the now ex butterfly box just before the inlet tracts, am I correct?
I checked that one and it was a bit grungy so I sprayed carburettor cleaner on it judiciously until it was clean.
I did this on my original D3 when I blanked off the EGR valves with no ill effect.
Now re turbos, I've been told that reconditioned ones are sometimes a bit flaky depending who and where they are and refurbished turbos don't necessarily check or change the actuator though the rest of the turbo os usually OK and worthy of the price!
With a new one, you do get a NEW turbo and NEW actuator!
Do you have any dealings with Best Turbos in Dudley?
There is a guy on or sister Range Rover site who has changed a RR Sport 2.7 turbo because of just this set of faults and bought a new turbo from AET, who are Borg Warner agents for not much more that this.
The GSF one comes from BTN who are also agents for Borg Warner, so should be OK?
My LR specialist place says it takes between 10 - 12 hours to change, which I think is fair and charge £45 per hour plus of course VAT!
They prefer new turbos rather than rebuilt or refurbished, not because they make money but the results are better with fewer comebacks!
A reasonable point I think!
Incidentally I really don't fancy driving it on a motorway when it can go into limp mode at the drop of the hat, my route to the LR people could be via M4 but I'm going on the narrow roads to them, just in case, so Dudley is a bit far!
Ian
21st Jan 2018 4:05 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10549
The mass meter is by the filter. Mike says you get that code with the turbo ones, so don't replace it yet!
I have purchased an exchange turbo from best Turbo's yes.
I would recommend whatever you do, it's usually sensible to get the garage to purchase the parts they are going to fit. That way no arguments if problems.
I think these cars will do 50 mph in lip mode if the worst happens. Which is about the speed of the slow lane in a motorway.
But yes if you are happier with a new turbo for that money I don't blame you.
The final bill is quite high with labour I guess though
Re live Data, I'm going admit I haven't mastered the IID Tool yet when it come to live data!
I know this annoys those that use one everyday and worked everything out for themselves but I sat down last night and read the IID Tool manual and have to admit it lost me on occasions, sorry!
One thing about the tool is it came up with NO faults on the iPhone app but when I got home I tried the iPad and it came up with the DTCs that I have here, now why is that?
An email to Patrick in Canada maybe?
So just for me with my iPad, what should I be looking for, Engine Speed and what else?
Accelerator position together with.......
Maybe you could give me a list to tick on the app and I'll brave the pouring rain and go on a test run. Do I need to get it to go into limp home mode or will just revving the engine be enough or does the engine need a proper load?
Pete my limp mode started at 50 then dropped down to eventually I was doing just 30 mph!!
Not for the faint hearted even though the traffic was light, also I don't think it really fair on the other road users!
I take your point re getting the garage to purchase the turbo.
This morning produced an interesting turn!
I took it to the local LR specialist who did a smoke test.
Smoke into the intercooler under pressure and see where it comes out!
It positively gushed out of the previously blanked off plates in the inlet tract.
Nowhere else had any leaks, so all the pipes are OK.
Removed the inlet unit and discovered that 1) the butterfly was still on the shaft!
I thought everybody knew that the butterfly has to be removed?
And 2) the 'O' rings looked OK but the inlet body was still rather gunky.
When I did the EGR blanking on my first D3 I cleaned everything up so it was all nice and sparkly clean, this was not done when who ever did the EGR blanking!
There was a slight split on the 'O' ring that goes into the inlet manifold, no spares so the guys put some silicone around these.
Repeated smoke test and all good.
Next up was the MAF not giving any reading.
Not having a new one in stock they tried one from another D3, and instantly there were sensible readings of 14 -16g/s, so a new MAF was ordered and will be fitted tomorrow.
It was suggested that the EGR valves are mapped out so the DTC will disappear. Obviously the vehicle is still seeing the valves and they are blocked/clogged so won't give sensible results and give a DTC.
I have to say that curing the induction leaks hasn't stopped it going into 'limp mode' but they reckon that could be down to the duff MAF.
Tomorrow and a new MAF and re-map will prove that one.
So it might be that a new turbo isn't necessary, here's hoping but it is still on standby!
By the way Disco_Mikey, Morgan at Promec sends his regards.
I just love the way that a dicky TDV6 engine can tell the transmission all the wrong things and even stop it changing gear at sensible revs!
Well the story so far.
New MAF and I now get proper live readings.
Took it for a run and guess what it still went into 'limp mode' when using the accelerator at anything above a sunday driver progress! I went back to Promec and the readings on their Autologic definitely point to a knackered turbo or actuator.
GSF are doing a 57% discount over the weekend so a 1500 quid Borg Warner original BF50 comes out at 665 quid inc the vat so not a bad price for a sparkling new turbo!
The nice guys at Promec are fitting it as and when they can over the next week.
Question: the GSF man asked if I needed a oil feed pipe, now I've heard this mentioned before but can't remember if it is necessary, any thoughts?
Silicone hoses are going in as well to future proof the intake pipery!
Hopefully the engine and gearbox will shake hands and change gear nicely once all this is done.
Would anybody recommend an engine remap when all is back up and running well, not for performance but fuel consumprion?
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