blue200tdi wrote:

If you tow a caravan or boat ETC for leisure use, then the removable tow bar will be fine. Anything that is towed for commercial use I'd fit a fixed tow bar, you can pick them up for £141 with free postage these days, brand new.....

Quote:

Why everyone is panicking about it is puzzling

me panic ....not really I'm just worried that this issue has come to light & in this way....a couple of posts above this say quite rightly if the makers have changed the specification (downrated it in some way) it affects all those out there in use whatever this is.....mine seems to fit well & is a to get in & out - it doesn't rattle...but I'm going to have a good look.

I could have just ignored the post/s - but I read this forum & get valuable data of what could happen...

If LandRover are readers of this forum they should take note of the serious concern, potential for error from non-hostlie users & loyal customers...things will take a different turn if there is an accident, someones hurt & there are any claims made...the words said on here are admissible in evidence...its the public domain.

B16 KJR wrote:

If you don't see a problem then thats fine

I don't want to get into a pointless debate about what constitutes occasional use,

Everyone will have their own interpretation

You might not want "pointless debates" and yet you seem to want to continually generate them

Face facts B16 ...it isn't a problem for the vast majority of people who get on very well with their bar ...VOSA aren't interested ...despite being told "they are onto it" ...VOSA's own information collected over several years indicates that the MOT failures due to play are below average for the 4x4 sector.

Mountains and molehills

Quote:

You might not want "pointless debates" and yet you seem to want to continually generate them

As I said I don't want another pointless debate DG, you have your opinion and I have mine, lets leave it at that.

If you read back, I only wanted to know if anyone knew why Landrover decided to make the change, nothing else. If you don't know, thats fine, I don't know either thats why I am asking the question.

As for your comment about me generating pointless debates, I think you need to look back at some of your own posts Moderate don't dominate

I used the word pointless to to try and prevent replies that had nothing whatsoever to do with the question in hand, that obviously didn't work

Quote:

Would you feel more comfortable debating with me if I wasn't a mod ?

Probably, but I would feel even more comfortable face to face.

The main issue I have, is that with you, there is no debate, your opinion is always right If there is a debate going on and you don't agree with the points being made then that's it, everyone else is wrong. It gets very frustrating being continually told that your opinion is worthless, when all I am trying to do is get an answer to a simple question.

Please don't rubbish my efforts to find out why it was changed, it may not be a problem to you, or "the vast majority of people" but it is an issue to me. If its not an issue to you, then don't post a reply, leave the replies to the people who are concerned about it.

Normally on the forum there are people who have "insider knowledge" you being one of them, that is why I asked the question in the first place, to see if anyone had any idea why the change was instigated. I don't know about you, but I tow on a regular basis and I am heavily involved with the Caravan Club. A lot of people within the club tow very regularly and some could argue that constitutes regular and frequent towing, as opposed to occasional.

Most of the people within the club with D3's use the removable towbar and many could find themselves in a sticky situation in the event of an accident. Why leave things to chance, why not try and get a proper official statement from Landrover what exactly constitutes "occasional" and if the removable bar is suitable for the type of towing they do ? That way there would be no dubiety no argument, everyone would know exactly where they stood and if they had the correct towbar for the type of towing they do.

I was hoping Liam would see this and perhaps try and get an answer, but after reading all this bickering he probably now won't want to get involved. I will write directly to Landrover to see if they will clarify the position, but I won't post the reply on here as that would probably constitute "generating pointless debate" in your opinion.

Sorry for the rant guys, but as I said I am fed up with my efforts to clarify the position being rubbished.

B16 KJR wrote:

The main issue I have, is that with you, there is no debate, your opinion is always right If there is a debate going on and you don't agree with the points being made then that's it, everyone else is wrong. It gets very frustrating being continually told that your opinion is worthless, when all I am trying to do is get an answer to a simple question.

OK I'm genuinely sorry that you feel that way.

People don't generally debate from a position of thinking that they are wrong and the purpose is for each side to give effective credence to their argument. Surely you cannot expect to put views in open forum and then not anticipate those views to be challenged. If as in this case it means that an impasse in opinion is crated then I guess that should be recognised and agreeing to disagree would be the only answer.

I don't know why you think that I think everyone else is wrong either, you can look back through previous debates and clearly see that I am fully capable of being swayed from my original stance and recognising that I have got it wrong. Something which many wouldn't do out of principal or fear of losing face. Not me though I was taught to hold my hand up when required

I do fully respect yours and others views from your own experiences but sometimes this can come across to others that the problem is across the board creating an unnecessary fear factor when clearly the facts known at this time don't support that.

I'd be quite happy to have a cup of coffee with you when I'm up your way ...but somehow I get the feeling that's not what you had in mind

I'll bow out of this thread and other debating threads for the greater benefit

The Large One wrote:

B16 KJR wrote:

Thats not what TLO told us about. He mentioned that on the boxes of new towbars, the removable one was now only labelled for "occasional light towing" or words to that effect.

there was an announcement on one of our internal bulletin boards, not a TSB but a general notifiacation on the same lines as DG posted which i copy pasted on here sometime ago
the quick release towbar is now classed as occasional towing as per nose weights for people who tow continual etc then best get the multi height

Quote:

Surely you cannot expect to put views in open forum and then not anticipate those views to be challenged.

Quote:

I'd be quite happy to have a cup of coffee with you when I'm up your way ...but somehow I get the feeling that's not what you had in mind

Not at all, you are very welcome to drop in here for a coffee anytime you are passing, I will PM you my address.

The problem with forums is that it is sometimes very difficult to interpret what the other person is saying/meaning and the use of emoticons does not always give a true reflection of what is meant as a joke/tounge in cheek statement etc.

Quote:

sometimes this can come across to others that the problem is across the board creating an unnecessary fear factor when clearly the facts known at this time don't support that.

If you look back at my comments about this you will see that I only posted comments about what happened in my personal case, my towbar was slack in the socket so I replaced it, as there was no way I was going to risk towing with a towbar that had play in it.

All I commented on was my actual experience and was then barraged with comments that it could not possibly be true, etc, etc, etc, etc. The play in my towbar had not been verified etc, etc, etc. My towbar is OK so yours must be too etc, etc,etc.

This was all very annoying, as all I was trying to do was warn people of my personal experience and get them to check their own towbar for piece of mind, instead I was shot down in flames and accused of "scaremongering" and creating fear All the person had to do was check the towbar, if there was no play they were fine, thats what I said many times.

B L Farrar.

Quote:

if a straight statement was made

I was with the Caravan Club Chairman and Immediate Past Chairman at the weekend but completely forgot to speak to them about this. I will drop him an email and ask if the Caravan Club will seek clarification from Landrover on behalf of its Members asking why the removable bar is now for occasional leisure use only. Landrover will probably respond better to a request from The CC than from a scaremongering individual (that comment is tongue in cheek )

blue200tdi wrote:

Anything that is towed for commercial use I'd fit a fixed tow bar, you can pick them up for £141 with free postage these days, brand new.