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sideview
Member Since: 02 Dec 2006
Location: in the valley
Posts: 1663
  
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Looks like this guy's got a lift & it's the first I've seen on a newer disco. I think his truck looks sweetly modded.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2522757
I'm curious if anybody here has lifted their disco, and thoughts on the subject, what impacts it would have (i.e. air suspension, terrain response...). I was under the impression you couldn't/shouldn't but maybe this isn't true? I'm not so good at giving advice...may I offer you a sarcastic comment instead?
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 14th Dec 2006 7:16 pm |
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Gurvan
Member Since: 02 Jan 2005
Location: Germany... Not far from both the US and Hard German rock...
Posts: 1089
  
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Matzker in Germany does a suspension lift for air suspended D3/LR3...
Look on their website...  Georgia On My Mind...
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| 14th Dec 2006 7:44 pm |
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10438
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Gurvan wrote:Matzker in Germany does a suspension lift for air suspended D3/LR3...
Look on their website...
Its more of an increase in air pressure to lift the car. If you fit it you will have to book yourself in to an osteopath. The ride is hard.
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| 14th Dec 2006 7:49 pm |
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Gurvan
Member Since: 02 Jan 2005
Location: Germany... Not far from both the US and Hard German rock...
Posts: 1089
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Thanks but I am not interested !
I just thought that it could be of value to someone... Georgia On My Mind...
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| 14th Dec 2006 7:56 pm |
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10438
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Gurvan wrote:Thanks but I am not interested !
I just thought that it could be of value to someone...
Nor me I recently witnessed a Matzker lifted D3, there seemed to be very little suspension travel.
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| 14th Dec 2006 8:06 pm |
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sideview
Member Since: 02 Dec 2006
Location: in the valley
Posts: 1663
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AndrewS wrote:
Nor me I recently witnessed a Matzker lifted D3, there seemed to be very little suspension travel.
So is what you mean by that is that there's not much flex in the suspension? Sorry, I'm learning  I'm not so good at giving advice...may I offer you a sarcastic comment instead?
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| 14th Dec 2006 8:27 pm |
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10438
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sideview wrote:AndrewS wrote:
Nor me I recently witnessed a Matzker lifted D3, there seemed to be very little suspension travel.
So is what you mean by that is that there's not much flex in the suspension? Sorry, I'm learning
Articulation is the magic word.
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| 14th Dec 2006 8:32 pm |
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dlm3
Member Since: 24 Oct 2006
Location: League City, Tx
Posts: 54
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Lift gives you ground clearance - which is important. Traction is important too, however.
If you take two steel pipes, lay them in parallel on a pile of rocks, and set a concrete block on them, what happens ? The pipes don't touch everywhere. Do this with a four wheeled vehicle with a stiff suspension and you get much the same thing - not everything is in contact with the ground, so you lose traction. Remember: if you have a 4wd vehicle with a center differential, if any wheel loses traction, all the torque will be delivered to that wheel.
Now lay a pair of soft rubber tubes on the pile of rocks and set the concrete block on them. What happens ? The tubes flex, giving you contact with most, if not all of the rocks along the length of each tube. A vehicle with a soft suspension will 'flow' into the rocks and maintain traction. Now, your 4wd system has traction on all four wheels, minimizing slip.
One of the long-standing advantages of the Discovery and Defender has been their long-travel, articulated suspension because they maintain traction better than most vehicles out there (certainly most production vehicles) even before using traction control, locking diffs and other devices.
(this also means that they don't handle as well as a sports car, but the D3 seems to be adequate, and superior to most other vehicles of its size and weight)
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| 14th Dec 2006 11:07 pm |
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disco4x4au
Member Since: 19 Jan 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 409
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Are you saying that the Matzker system would reduce articulation over and above that of the normal D3 system when it is in super-extended mode? How?
In _severe_ rock-climbing situations, where I'm running the car in its highest profile setting, the articulation is still adequate enough to maintain ground contact for most of the time. And in that situation, you _need_ the ground clearance. Not much point in having all 4 wheels on the ground if the rest of the car is too!
Cheers,
Gordon ex - 2006 D3 TDV6 SE, silver, with lots of stuff - R.I.P.
ex - 2009 D3 TDV6 SE, silver, had lots of stuff too!
Now - 2010 RRS 3.0 TDV6, rimini red, 18" rims + Cooper LTZ, rear eLocker, Spider tuning box, GOE protection plates and rock sliders, GOE 3way shortened rods.
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| 15th Dec 2006 12:17 am |
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LeighW
D3 Decade
Member Since: 31 Jan 2006
Location: Brisbane, AUS
Posts: 916
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Sideview, another problem will arise (if you can pardon the pun) and that is the new angles that the drive shafts have to the constant velocity joints. There is a certain safe operating range for these joints and exceeding it on a regular basis (ie. raising the suspension by an inordinate amount) will cause extra stress with destructive results.
AndrewS put it succinctly with "Articulation is the magic word" and dlm3 put it eloquently with a terrific description of the type of well-designed suspension that the LR engineers have developed.
In a magazine article I read, but it is worthwhile repeating, 'All vehicles will probably move to the type of suspension that air suspended Land Rovers have had (and developed) for some time' It is that forward in its design.
Of interest, back in the mid 1950s, WABCO developed an air suspension that actually transferred lift to the side that was under compression. In effect, the car stayed on a level keel as it rounded a curve. I do not know what happened to that development but it could have been the forerunner to what LR finally put in their vehicles. Maybe someone will correct me if I am wrong, but we are yet to see LR take it to the stage where the suspension shifts air from one side like the WABCO system. Maybe they are saving that for the D4/LR4 and other LR products.
HTH, Leigh LeighW
The old girl is on her third engine...
* first ran a bearing (design failure in original engine)
* second had a failure of the water outlet on top of the engine (pls check yours)
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| 15th Dec 2006 12:20 am |
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simon_arch1
Member Since: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 502
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There will be limits to which you can increase drivetrain angles without damaging or over stressing, but a minor lift of 30-50mm using blocks under or on top of the air springs would certainly be OK. Adn doing it this way, the suspension stiffness and articulation would not be affected at all - just everything would be operating from a higher position. You should only end up with stiffer suspension if you tricked the ride height sensors somehow, so that they pumped more air in for what it now considered normal ride height...
My 2 bobs worth... the airbag lift kit idea would be similar to what we did for rear air/SLS Disco 2's. Air pressure was not changed - just used blocks under the SLS bags, and extended the ride height sensor.
cheers
Simon D3 - Buckingham Blue, SE, TDV6, 06 model; chipped; underbody armour; Mickey Thompson ATZ 275/65-18 AND MAXXIS Bighorn muddies; rear wheel carrier from 4x4intelligence.com; iPOD aux connection! GME 3200 UHF - aerial mounted on wheel carrier ; LR roof rails/cross bars; Autosafe cargo barrier, Safari Snorkel; Traxide - aux battery; ARB bull bar with Tigerz11 winch; Lightforce 240 XGT driving lights (mitchell bros tow hitch to come)
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| 15th Dec 2006 1:31 am |
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dlm3
Member Since: 24 Oct 2006
Location: League City, Tx
Posts: 54
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Simon_arch - I don't know if that's what the Matzker system does, but if the result is a firmer suspension, I'd imagine that's precisely what they're doing. Might even be little more than a software modification.
LeighW - the early D2s had an option for the late, unlamented Active Cornering Enhancement, which was supposed to help the Disco be a little less tippy around corners. My D1 required intestinal fortitude to drive around corners to its limits of adhesion, the D2 with ACE probably didn't - I only drove one once and found it to be better than the D1, but not alarmingly so. The D3 corners better than either one, though it's no sports car.
My guess is that LR did do something to firm up the D3 suspension in cornering. What, I don't know.
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| 15th Dec 2006 3:55 am |
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sideview
Member Since: 02 Dec 2006
Location: in the valley
Posts: 1663
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Thanks for the great explenations. I think I'm starting to understand now.
I see comments like this from old rover drivers about new ones - "I'd get one as soon as there is a solid axle conversion with a 4" lift and larger wheel openings".
Asside from more clearance why do so many off-roaders get their older rovers lifted with big tires and such then? It would seem that it'd be better to have more articulation. I'm not so good at giving advice...may I offer you a sarcastic comment instead?
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| 15th Dec 2006 4:39 am |
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dlm3
Member Since: 24 Oct 2006
Location: League City, Tx
Posts: 54
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sideview, the old land rovers with their solid axles and coil springs can be lifted without sacrificing articulation. But they substitute taller springs and dampers (shock absorbers) as well as modified shock towers to accomplish it. They also put on taller tyres, requiring substantial trimming or flares to allow for full suspension travel.
The general idea is to improve both ground clearance and traction - but you sacrifice on-road handling, high-end acceleration, and fuel consumption for it. If you live in Oz, South Africa or the Middle East and spend more time off road than on, it's a good trade. In the US, probably not, unless you plan on driving off road frequently.
The D3 may be somewhat harder to lift unless you're willing to drastically change the air suspension with larger, taller bags that provide greater height with the same amount of springiness, and make software mods that allow for the change.
No doubt it will happen, but the D3 is still young, and IMHO, it doesn't need all that much improvement (if any). Tyres, maybe. We'll see.
Last edited by dlm3 on 15th Dec 2006 5:14 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 15th Dec 2006 5:02 am |
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