Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Cheers for the input Catweasel
I have multiple reasons for believing this is do-able.
1) The system is listed as optional in at least the IDS systems control files for the D3.
2) On Microcat they listed steering wheel controls for the D3 where "with ACC" was an option, although i don't believe the switch bar was listed as "with ACC".
3) The workshop manual on Topix clearly lists the functionality for the disco 3 instrument pack as including ACC.
Quote:
39. Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) Indicator (if fitted)
The ACC indicator is controlled by the ACC module and the instrument cluster software. The indicator is illuminated when cruise control is active and another vehicle is detected by the radar system in front of the vehicle. The indicator is illuminated in an amber color to alert the driver that the ACC system is active and will automatically control the vehicle speed to maintain a set distance from the vehicle in front.
4) Modularity and stack ability of systems is the way Ford have always done things. hence why you have a single CCF controlling everything about how the vehicle works. If folks have learned nothing else from my own quite extensive modifications so far, it must be, fit the hardware, enable it in the CCF and bingo.
I don't know why they never actually fitted it to the D3, but clearly it was intended and as the D3 is technically identical to an RRS there is absolutely no reason to suspect this will not work.
Indeed on my first attempt to get the system to work, although i could not calibrate the Radar sensor and had a fault code relating to the FA switch otherwise, everything else worked as it should and the dash provided all the ACC related messages it should have
There are many reasons why i might not have been able to get the sensor to calibrate that sadly i never got round to figuring out.
Here are just a few thoughts
1) Sensor mounting solidity:
The mounting of my Radar sensor was really poor and flimsy, i was not even initially sure i had it mounted the right way up although i later confirmed that it was.
If the sensor was subject to vibration, this could easily explain why it would not calibrate.
2) Initial sensor alignment:
The workshop manual has a very specific alignment procedure using special tools to adjust the horizontal and vertical alignment screws the OEM mount has. These are effectively spirit levels to ensure the sensor face is absolutely 100% forward facing, not something my flimsy radar sensor mounting really accommodated and again another very good reason i could not achieve calibration.
3) Sensor position on the vehicle:
I fitted mine centrally to the vehicle, and quite a bit back from things like the bumper and quite a bit of metal work.
In OEM applications for this Model year of the RRS for example the sensor is mounted offset to the vehicle center, a bit lower and has no surrounding metalwork. The calibration procedure requires you drive past a high number of Metal object on the roadside. Perhaps moving the sensor to the vehicles center means it could not sense these.
4) Faulty sensor:
I have no history or way to validate that the sensor i was using was not faulty. I do now have another one to try to prove this possibility out, but this is as yet untested.
As ever it is simply a case of trial and error to figure out what is important or not, and why my initial attempt failed at the calibration stage that i have simply been unable to find the time to do.
However in digging out all my parts for this project, including the new RRS FA switch i took a moment to look into this.
Even a base 4 switch D3 bar actually has the same PCB as a full 6 switch RRS bar
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
So it is just a case of mixing the right bits to get what you need to add the FA switch to a D3.
7th Jan 2013 6:32 pm
kenny
Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: South West Aus
Posts: 79
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
I may have made some significant progress on this today
Quote:
4) Faulty sensor:
I have no history or way to validate that the sensor i was using was not faulty. I do now have another one to try to prove this possibility out, but this is as yet untested.
It's funny how writing things down can often be enough to trigger new thinking.
There is actually something new that changes this situation, namely the latest MSV-2 upgrade.
At the time i first tested this system on the D3, the only capability our equipment provided was to read fault codes which told me that there was a FA switch problem and that the sensor was not calibrated, and of course the ability to put the sensor in Calibration mode.
But now, as part of the V1.31 update, we have the inputs page which shows live input data from the sensor as well as the FA switch.
Quickly putting my ACC add on bit on our D3 bench rig and using the MSV-2 to look at the inputs, i could see that was indeed no output from the sensor at all.
So perhaps it is faulty, or not being turned on due to the FA switch problem.
Either way i now have a really very useful tool to help me pre sort and check stuff out that will quickly eliminate a lot of guesswork as to where my problem was.
8th Jan 2013 5:53 pm
Fifth Horseman
Member Since: 23 Oct 2012
Location: Lanarkshire
Posts: 217
Thats the one for the RRS 2010->
And they're taking the p - you should be able to get that for about 2/3 the price..
8th Jan 2013 8:06 pm
hids4u
Member Since: 12 Apr 2009
Location: Leeds
Posts: 1155
Hi Colin
Well I took the lunge and now have the Ecu and sensor. Not got the forward switch yet, not sure it's needed so need to dig some more
Got an old laptop with xp so faultmate working and reading ccf again.
Did you manage to take a look at the terminals on the d4 Ecu to see if they are the same as the d3
Best Regards Ian
19th Jan 2013 2:18 pm
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Hiya Ian
I got the FA switch for completeness, it may not be needed if you don't want the FA feature and might be possible to omit, but it was not expensive. Right now i would hold off getting one until we sus this out.
The D3 and D4 ACC ECU's are physically identical and wired the same. I do have both and when we get this going on the D3, the next step is to do the same on the D4
The test rig and sensor has now been re mounted, more sturdily and more correctly aligned on a D3 and barring sorting a small wiring issue we we re attempt to calibrate the sensor in the next few days.
Will keep you all posted on any developments.
19th Jan 2013 4:18 pm
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Guys i have recently realized that i had got the labeling of the 2 CAN pairs the wrong way round on my previous Picture of the ACC ECU wiring and so have photo shopped this to make the correction.
Click image to enlarge
20th Jan 2013 3:44 pm
CUCO
Member Since: 26 May 2011
Location: Spain & Oleee!!!
Posts: 609
I feel this will be 100% running not too far..
20th Jan 2013 4:11 pm
Spooky
Member Since: 02 Jun 2009
Location: Swindon, Wilts
Posts: 1013
Reckon that'll fix it, Colin!
I've been busy gathering components - just need the wheel (gap) button and (ideally) some connector plugs for the ECU and radar unit ...Regards,
Mick
- 2014 SDV8 Autobiography
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20th Jan 2013 5:11 pm
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Sourcing the proper connectors for the ACC ECU and Radar sensor may prove tricky.
Ideally you need to find a Breaker FFRR or RRS that had ACC fitted. I believe it was standard on Supercharged Models.
I had to improvise with soldering wires directly onto the Pins of the Radar sensor using Hot melt glue and heat shrink to make that water proof and some 2 pin SIL headers for the connections to the ACC ECU.
As many will know, i have quite some experience in retro fitting stuff to these Vehicles. So technically, as long as we correctly re produce all the wiring and connectivity for the system, enable it in the CCF, and mount the Radar sensor in such a way that the ACC system is happy with it, there is no good reason why it should not work and i certainly also feel that we are not far away from proving that.
20th Jan 2013 7:05 pm
SBD4
Member Since: 21 Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 2
BBS SPY wrote:
Guys i have recently realized that i had got the labeling of the 2 CAN pairs the wrong way round on my previous Picture of the ACC ECU wiring and so have photo shopped this to make the correction.
Click image to enlarge
Hi Colin,
First off, thank you for sharing your intimate knowledge of these vehicles. It makes doing these sorts of mods a lot easier!
I am going to be doing this on a D4 so, couple of questions for you if I may...
-Can you please confirm if the pin designations are the same for both the D3 and D4 Speed Control ECUs?
-Can you identify pin 1 and pin 16 locations so we can be sure of the direction of numbering for each row (I assume Pin 1 is top right and Pin 16 bottom right in your pic - 30 total)?
-Can you please identify the pin numbers on the radar unit? I can't see any way to work it out...
-Where does the ECU go when factory fitted?
In the absence of a written-off FFRR or RRS, what do you think/recommend is a decent solution to the connector issue? I would hate to break a pin on the ECU while mucking around with confirming setup and functionality before making soldered pin connections permanent with glue. Perhaps solder and glue as you say with a separate 7 pin plug and socket inserted into the loom and similar for the radar?
Still waiting on a new cruise control switch pack with the distance control switches included for the steering wheel to arrive end of Jan and of course before any of this can work I'll need to get an MSV2 or similar from you at some point....
Thanks for all your help.
Cheers Sean.
21st Jan 2013 6:10 am
kenny
Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: South West Aus
Posts: 79
My update so far is a mixed result.
With regards to the plugs I lucked out on the radar unit, when I ordered it I asked the ebayer if the plug was available or if they sold the harness separately. When it was delivered the plug with a 30cm tail was included As for the ECU wiring, I raided a old desktop for the connectors that go from the front of case switches to the mother board, many of these are set in pairs with twisted wires leading to them. I've put a photo in my gallery of what I've done, the ACC ECU is temporarily mounted in the spare battery box, it will be permanently mounted as shown once I'm confident this will all work. With regards to water tightness... I don't think the ACC ECU is any less vulnerable than the transfer case ECU or the glow plug controller that share the same space.
Installing the Radar: Not a fun job! I found a YouTube giving removal procedure for the front bumper on a D3, this was enough help but a little different to the D4. But I really don't like pulling a plastic and plugs. Anyways the center of the bumper has a stiffener in it that stops you just mounting the radar behind it. (photo in gallery) It appears that you could fit on either side of center as in earlier RRS but I elected to trim out plastic and fit it centrally. There is not much room at all in there, and the radar unit needs to be mounted as low as possible, because the top of the bumper slopes down, it was late in the day so I didn't get photos of the radar in position and my crude bracket. I have however taken some photos of the bumper and mount rail, I'm not sure if the bracket shown on ebay work on the D4, it seems to be mounted too high??
So then the enabling on the CCF. There are several options many combinations to try but I haven't cracked it yet, I still need to install steering wheel switch, I'm hoping this is the missing link, but the good news is that the ACC ECU appears to be seen by my MSV2.
I will provide more updates as I can..
Ken
21st Jan 2013 12:27 pm
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Hiya SBD4 (Sean)
Welcome to the forum
Thank you for your kind comments, but it is just a case of taking the time and making the effort to read what is available.
re pin designation comparison:
I have not looked into D4 as yet, but as i believe i have already stated, the two ECU's are physically identical.
However it is a quick and simple enough job for anyone to compare the ECU pins in my schematic
[url]http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/12690/ACC2_sch.pdf [/url] or the pre 2010 RRS wiring diagram,
http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/use...ontrol.pdf
against those in the wiring diagram you have linked to
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/d3-d...ontrol.pdf
which makes it obvious that other than the omission of the FA switch, all other pin numbers used are for the the same purpose.
Re Pin 1 and 16 locations:
Yes the labels on my picture, compared against the schematic i provided, make it obvious that pin 1 is indeed top right and Pin 16 is below it at bottom right. However the ECU connector socket is also embossed with the numbers on the corner and of course you can obtain a picture and pin usage of the C2145 Plug on Topix.
Don't forget that shows the Plug on the wiring which must of course be mirrored in respect of the Socket on the ECU
Re radar unit connections:
Again you can get a picture of the C2025 plug from Topix,
however in studying the schematic you see pin 2 is Earth and you can likely meter this pin and get continuity to the metal case to figure out which end pin 1 is at.
Re ECU original location:
I have never seen one fitted on a vehicle, however the workshop manual removal procedure shows it is fitted deep in the drivers side Kick panel. I suspect it changes side with the RHD / LHD changes.
on this picture it is the ECU pointed to with the C2145 label
Click image to enlarge
Re the enabling, hopefully we will have our new Nanocom Evolution system available by then
Kenny
Nice one with the getting the Radar sensor plug are there any manufacturer names or part numbers on it
Also a good idea, raiding an old PC Case to get hold of the Pin Sil connectors for this.
I have looked at your photos and you clearly have a knack for this sort of thing
The SDD goes on about aligning the sensor so it is totally upright and facing forward using some tool that i understand is but a spirit level applied to the face of the sensor.
I am not yet sure if the height and offset from center is important or not, but then that is one of the things we need to find out.
It is indeed a good step that you have gained diagnostic access to the ACC ECU so you can put it in calibration mode.
many may not appreciate that the MSV-2 system is forward thinking enough to actually have the ACC ECU listed in the menu of ECU's it covers on the D3 and D4.
If you upgrade to the latest software you will also have inputs from the system.
In attempting sensor Calibration, check out the ACC system help which describes this process and requirements in detail.
ATB
Colin
Last edited by BBS SPY on 22nd Jan 2013 5:18 pm. Edited 1 time in total
21st Jan 2013 6:36 pm
SBD4
Member Since: 21 Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 2
Colin, thanks for the reply. Yep you are so right - the info was right under my nose. spent ages trying to find the pin numbers for the ECU - had to take it out into the sun to actually see the numbering on the base - doh. Also did not even think about topix.
Ken, good job mate. I came to the same conclusion myself on the bracket for the radar after I compared the bumpers of the RRS and D4. I did see a radar unit that was 1/3 the thickness of the earlier ones but it is 3 times the price... it would certainly be easier to install that.
Looking at your photos you sure are right about the ECU being no less water tight than other components in there. Good thing about the ECU going there is that you don't need to run anything through the firewall.
I see what you mean on the 2 SIL PC connectors - good idea. I thought you meant the larger DIL for ribbon cable.
Hopefully the next post I make will actually contribute something constructive
Cheers Sean.
22nd Jan 2013 1:57 am
BBS SPY Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
No worries Sean
The more folks we have working and collaborating on this, the sooner we will get it sorted
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