Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Credit Card & paypal Surcharges
CC surcharges have been negatively targeted in the press lately, mainly as a result of Airlines and ticket vendors unfairly charging far more than they really should.
I know many have winced at our adding this 3% surcharge we do and may regard this new anti surcharge change as a good thing. But even with the very best wrangling in the world, we have actually always lost approximately 6% on any CC or Paypal transaction and always thought it only fair to split this loss equally when such easier payment methods are selected.
In order to continue to accept Paypal Payments, i have just been forced into agreeing to additional merchant terms that effectively means i agree to not favor any other method of payment over CC or paypal.
IE we must now hide the CC or Paypal costs and charge the same for those paying by CC or Paypal as well as Bank Transfer or debit cards.
Although we believe our surcharge was fair, and there is scope for fair surcharges, the perception given by the press and no doubt one which will be generally accepted by the public is that any surcharge, no matter how small will be viewed as profiteering and unjust.
I therefore have little choice but to abolish all surcharges and raise the price of our products to compensate as i honestly can not and should not be expected to absorb this loss
No now anyone buying our equipment, even those paying by Bank transfer or debit card will end up paying an extra 6% more.
As someone who has genuinely striven to provide equipment at the lowest possible price, it really bugs me that something that is being generally reported as a benefit to customers is really just another disguised benefit to CC companies.
I do hope every one understand this Home of RLD Hidden winch mounts Spare wheel Locks Trailer Body Fabrication ray@rld-tech.co.uk D3/4 sump plates MY 14 sump plates and the Discovery Sport wheel protectors Discovery 5 wheel locks
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3rd Jan 2012 7:16 pm
marco 110
Member Since: 15 Nov 2009
Location: SALLES 33
Posts: 1014
Re: Credit Card & paypal Surcharges
BBS SPY wrote:
......................is really just another disguised benefit to CC companies.
Yep.........Unfortunately ......
Off topic: you received my mail for a FCR?.Marco.
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Let us not loose sight of the costs of ANY transaction. I am in business and accept many types of payment. The cheapest by far is a debit card with that transaction costing less than £0.50 then there are the bank charges for accepting the batch that inclued this reciept. Cheques cost a little more but require a trip to the bank and a longer delay before I recieve the money, Credit cards cost 1.25% plus the bank charge again & can be quite a lot on a big transaction. Cash seems fine as long as you can safely stash it and use it to pay someone else but it carries the greatest risk of loss. PayPal is a rip-off for a seller with unreasonablly high commision rates so I don't accept it without a surcharge (to cover the cost).
I winced significantly at the BBS surcharge of 3% and wonder why you have not negotiated better rates?
Bill
Last edited by Baschurchbill on 3rd Jan 2012 8:33 pm. Edited 1 time in total
3rd Jan 2012 8:31 pm
pom
Member Since: 10 Feb 2008
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 1790
The CC fee scam has being going on for years about time it was crimped you can thank ryanair. Not quite sure I understand colins point, there are no debit card fees ? Use a merchant other than paypal maybe or is it an excuse for a quick 6% price jump across the board.
Tip for paying for high value items and still getting the all the benefits of the consumer credit act, use your debit card and arrange an overdraght. All the same rights and cover then.
Precisely! Any business has to recieve payment in some form and the cost of this is already built into the price of the goods. IMHO credit cards add only 1% or so to this cost and bring benefits which can outweigh the premium so any surcharge is an excuse for a profit boost.
Bill
3rd Jan 2012 8:39 pm
leeds
Member Since: 30 Aug 2010
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 4316
As a small business I fully understand BBS sentiment.
The figures being bandied around by the Consumer association to put it bluntly was plain wrong as far as small businesses are concerned
We will not accept payment by American Express as their charges are 15-20% of the sale price
If we accept payment in cash, it cost us money to bank it in our business account. Yes the theiving banks wants 2% to put cash into a business account. Yet if pay cash into a private account their is no charge!
Debit cards, there is a standing charge, double the standing charge on a credit card.
So a customer wants credit? We are expected to lose 2.7-2.8% of the sale to the credit card customer can have up to 8 weeks free credit??
Under current legislation we are entitled to charge a reasonable fee to cover the charge by the credit card company and associated costs. In our case I think 3% is fair and reasonable
On top of these charges we have other charges relating to using card machines, including line rental, machine rental etc etc.
Please remember that ' big businesses' such as DVLA, local councils etc charge for use of credit cards.
So why not small businesses?
So should we ask the forum users who pay by debit cards. Would you be willing to pay more so that other people can get up to 8 weeks free credit?
Brendan
3rd Jan 2012 8:39 pm
leeds
Member Since: 30 Aug 2010
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 4316
Baschurchbill wrote:
Precisely! Any business has to recieve payment in some form and the cost of this is already built into the price of the goods. IMHO credit cards add only 1% or so to this cost and bring benefits which can outweigh the premium so any surcharge is an excuse for a profit boost.
Bill
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG
We would love to get down to 1%
ONLY companies with large turnover will get anywhere near 1%.
So we have just been re arranging our card service provider and will get a reduction in fees but it will be no where near 1%
DO NOT PROMOTE THE MISTAKEN VIEW THAT IT COSTS SMALL COMPANIES VERY LITTLE TO TAKE PAYMENT BY CREDIT CARD
Lets see what the GOVERNMENT official agencies say on their website
Quote:
The charge levied by credit card companies for this facility will be passed on to the customer. Following a public consultation exercise on a number of different options, a flat rate charge for credit card payments was chosen. The £2.50 charge covers the costs incurred by the Agency for providing this service. Debit card payments will remain free of charge.
Now if the official government agencies who's turnover is many times ours can charge credit card surcharges why can't small businesses?
Brendan
3rd Jan 2012 8:53 pm
pom
Member Since: 10 Feb 2008
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 1790
The point is you wont be able to charge a fee for taking credit cards. I think you are looking at it the wrong way round.
YOU are contracting a company to provide YOU the service of offering credit to YOUR potential customers, you can't expect them to do this for nothing ?
If the 1.5% is make or break for your SME then just don't accept credit cards. I would bet most companies would see this is a pittance to widen the customer base.
Pom
ps contact your local indian takeaway and find out who they use, you can guarantee they wont be paying a fortune on the amount of transactions they have!
pps the fee portion you can set against your corp tax as well.
3rd Jan 2012 8:54 pm
fade2grey
Member Since: 06 Sep 2008
Location: Reading
Posts: 304
As a pure punter I hate finding a payment surcharge slapped on the end of a transaction. In fact I've gone elsewhere as a result. These days I do expect to be able to purchase via my chosen method & generally have free postage too. It's what competition in the market place is driving.
That said, everyone needs their pound of flesh & the cost of the product is generally calculated to give an acceptable margine once all of the business overheads are considered (eg lighting and transaction fees, etc etc). I expect that, hence the expectation above.
Just my 2p56 HSE
3rd Jan 2012 9:38 pm
hotrocks
Member Since: 05 Jan 2010
Location: England
Posts: 467
As a small business owner I can only say some of you obviously dont understand how the credit card and banking system system works for SME's!
We are charged a monthly fee for the machine rental, a % of every transaction and/or a standing fee for taking the card payment.
If we take a cheque we get hit with banking fees
If we pay cash in we get hit with banking fees
If we are stupid enough to take Amex we may as well not bother selling anything.
We get hit with VAT (assuming yu are at or above the limit) so lose another 20%
Our fees for taking cards are down to 1.5% (I am one of the lucky ones!) we started at more like 3.5% of every transaction. Then the greedy card companies take more interest of the customers who use the credit and dont pay off the bill at the end if the month.
Your local indian will be lucky to get the rates I do and is probably paying more % as although they will have more tranactions they are likely to be of lower value and probably on debit card rather than credit card which they will be charged a fee for rather than a percentage.
Anyone who thinks small business are ripping them off on card charges needs to realise that most SME's have to work to low margins as they don't have the buying power or ecomonies of scale that the bigger corporations do, so every percentage taken by the card companies and banks is lost profit on a genrally smaller margin anyway.
I applaud BBS for being upfront about his price increases and the real reason why and hope my customers will be receptive in the New Year when I increase mine in line with inflation, bank charges, card charges and to cover the bad debts incurred by non payers.
3rd Jan 2012 9:38 pm
leeds
Member Since: 30 Aug 2010
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 4316
One thing people seem to forget is that different types of companies have vastly different gross mark ups.
Lets face it the chain high street fashion shops have markups of 300%+ They will be able to afford the credit card surcharge of less then 1,5%
Your local take away probably pays around 15-25p per can of pop/bottle of water and sells them for say 75p or a 300-500% mark up. So a 3-4% credit card surcharge is easily absorbed. Is that excessive profiteering?
Other trades may often have gross mark ups of 10-15%. Lose 3% to credit card companies then that is a BIG chunk out of the gross mark up.
We tell people up front about credit card surcharge. If people do NOT want to pay it they have a simple choice, PAY IT or USE A DIFFERENT PAYMENT METHOD or don't buy it. Interestingly in our case most people just get their debit cards out!
Now going back to the local take away, typically they will deliver free of charge if you live within say 3 miles. If you live 3.2 miles away they will charge you say £2
Will the government ban this SURCHARGE? If so want will the take aways do? Refuse to deliver more then 3 miles? Put up their prices?
Brendan
3rd Jan 2012 10:12 pm
Apache
Member Since: 16 Oct 2011
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 692
hotrocks wrote:
As a small business owner I can only say some of you obviously dont understand how the credit card and banking system system works for SME's!
We are charged a monthly fee for the machine rental, a % of every transaction and/or a standing fee for taking the card payment.
If we take a cheque we get hit with banking fees
If we pay cash in we get hit with banking fees
If we are stupid enough to take Amex we may as well not bother selling anything.
We get hit with VAT (assuming yu are at or above the limit) so lose another 20%
Our fees for taking cards are down to 1.5% (I am one of the lucky ones!) we started at more like 3.5% of every transaction. Then the greedy card companies take more interest of the customers who use the credit and dont pay off the bill at the end if the month.
So just to confirm - you are hit with fees HOWEVER the customer decides to pay?!?!?!
If Paypal take such a high percentage then stop offering it as a method of payment! I also have a small business and have just looked and I pay 1.050% for Visa and 1.080% for Mastercard (15p for debit cards). Yes I have to rent the machine but at £15 a month that's not many trips to the bank in a Discovery! The money is in my account to spend the next day.
Maybe the OP needs to find a better credit card merchant to use and scrap Paypal. Looks like a nice excuse to raise prices by 6%...........
In order to continue to accept Paypal Payments, i have just been forced into agreeing to additional merchant terms that effectively means i agree to not favor any other method of payment over CC or paypal.
BBS point is that it is PayPal who is twisting his arm.....not the CC companies!
The simple answer is stop taking PayPal!
Also, if the fee was blended into the price from day one of business nobody would have noticed nor complained.............I'll get my coat!
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3rd Jan 2012 10:18 pm
leeds
Member Since: 30 Aug 2010
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 4316
Apache, do you want to pm me your card service company details and the fee structure please?
We can not get anywhere near those fees. I understand the likes of Tesco's etc pay 8p/transaction plus 0.7-0.8%
We own our card machine and most card providers do not like that as we pay a reduced monthly fee!
Oh yes NOT ALL transactions are available for use the following day. Guess how we know that?
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