Member Since: 11 Aug 2008
Location: Teesside
Posts: 372
Daft question - Is the gearbox the wrong way round??
I know this sounds daft but I'm confused on the logic here.
The D4 Command Shift works by pulling the lever to change down the 'box, push to change up.
However, when you look at F1 and WRC, they all work in the opposite way (Pull to change up, push to change down). This seems more logical as when accelerating you are pulled back into the seat, but when braking, you are pushed forwards into the seatbelt.
Do any other road cars have the change the other way round?
Just curious if there was a reason for the dfference?
DSG autobox is just the same as Disco as regards the way the controls work.
afetr that the DSG box is far far better as regards everything....just wish that this was fitted
rather than the ZFBREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
29th Sep 2011 10:42 am
oop north
Member Since: 26 Jun 2009
Location: Preston
Posts: 236
The logic of having the push forward to change down is that when braking really heavily it would be hard to pull the lever back to change down. So lr is the wrong way round
I have had a few autos over the years and cannot for the life of me remember which way any one of them went - except that I know some were one way round and some the other. Anyway, lr are not alone
29th Sep 2011 3:41 pm
bobgolden
Member Since: 15 Oct 2010
Location: South Yorkshire
Posts: 907
Never had any reason to use it in sport or manual - goes like stink and it's adapted to my heavy right foot. If I was a frequent off roader or if the snow gets particulalry bad this year, I might reconsider.2010 MX-5 2.0 Sport Tech PRHT
2019 Suzuki Vitara AllGrip
Gone BMW X5 xDrive 30d M Sport (F15)
Gone Disco 4 HSE SD V6
Gone 2008 Jaguar XF 2.7TD Premium Luxury
Some Mercs go left and right.... far better imho.____
Gone: 10MY L320 RR Sport HSE, Ipanema Sand
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29th Sep 2011 10:03 pm
abernanteagle
Member Since: 10 Aug 2011
Location: South Wales
Posts: 255
Volvo geartronic is the same as the D3 (and agree with previous post that the VAG DSG box is absolutely brilliant). I think the other way is known as a race shift pattern and is generally only used in racing cars as it is counter-intuitive to the average joe who expects to push the lever up to change up and vice-versa.Dec 04 TDV6 HSE in Tonga green with Alpaca interior.
29th Sep 2011 10:05 pm
Calcul@tor
Member Since: 08 Mar 2006
Location: Middle England!
Posts: 810
What's so great about the VAG DSG?D4 XS MY12 Galway
29th Sep 2011 10:41 pm
PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
I've always thought that the forward-backward movement of the D3 auto-box was counter-intuitive to be honest and would prefer it to be the opposite way around (i.e. forwards to change down, backwards to change up).
Saying that, In 4 years of ownership with a lot of it spent (both towing and off-road) in Command Shift I've never actually shifted in the wrong direction so it's obviously not that counter-intuitive
My wife has a Golf DSG (we bought it with a DSG box after having the auto D3 for a year) and it is a fantastic gearbox. It has all the advantages of a manual (a "direct" feeling, fast changes, no torque convertor slip, great fuel economy), with the advantages of an automatic (very comfortable and relaxing to drive, paddle shifts, sport/manual/auto modes).
The shift times on the DSG are so fast they are almost instant (both going up and down through the box) and for my liking it feels much more responsive as it will instantly change down when needed (no need to wait or bury the throttle to force it to change). This makes it far easier to keep the turbo spinning and stops the flat spots that we all suffer from in the low-end of the TDV6s rev range.
Although I prefer the feeling of the DSG over the ZF, I'm not sure if it would suit the D3 better or not. A smaller car with a snappier, more powerful engine is ideally suited to the DSG, but to be fair the "wafting around" feeling you get from the ZF is actually fairly well suited to the D3 IMHO. Obviously I'm talking about a 2.7 D3 - this may be fairly different on the 245/255bhp D4 and with the 8 speed ZF they may have made it more responsive to take advantage of so many gears.
antoniasdad wrote:
Some Mercs go left and right.... far better imho.
I was in Milan on Tuesday for a meeting and had a automatic Merc E Class hire car - I didn't like the left-right manual shift if I'm honest as it felt very unnatural although I'm sure you would get used to it within a few drives.
Cheers,
Paul2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE AutoBuckingham Blue 2007 Golf GT DSG
A whole bunch of things......
VAG started with a clean sheet of paper & rethought the concept of an Auto box...the DSG is what resulted
~ it doesnt have a torque converter...so this in itself makes it far more efficient in power transmision & fuel economy terms
~ it doesnt use hydraulics to engage clutches...so doesnt have the hang ups of ATF temperature ( getting up to temperature & then keeping at this without overheat)
~ uses the two shaft principle & pre empts changes up or down so is very fast on changes (almost inperceptible)
~ has the "foot off brake - creep speed" feature.....very good for getting into & out of tight parking spots & doubles as a creep speed to get you out of being stuck on snowy/slushey/icy roads...this really does work
~ flawless change from auto/sport/manual...you get auto cahnge up in manual (if you forget or over rev) & an instant kick down in any mode.
I believe the clutches used originally had Valeo "W2" organic friction material used - which overcame may of the issues with mineral clutch facings...whether this came into a production I dont currently know....
The end result is gear box that is precise, fast & a joy to use...by far the best I have used - Includes Borg-Warner, Aisin-Warner, ZF, NVG, Van-doornes (these were good btw) & some american ones that I cant remember. Has a gear shift same as other autos...but is fundamentally different in concept & execution.
Even die hard manual only drivers are converted to reality in DSG's.........Also seem mega reliable
........but strangely not used in Audi Q7 / VW Toureg/Prsche Cayenne...but in other Audi/VW/SEAT - performance carsBREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
30th Sep 2011 8:02 am
hensoni
Member Since: 01 Oct 2007
Location: Sleepy Somerset
Posts: 576
Quote:
VAG started with a clean sheet of paper & rethought the concept of an Auto box
Did that clean sheet of paper discount the double clutch gearboxes fitted to London buses for many decades? Club missing my D3
Did that clean sheet of paper discount the double clutch gearboxes fitted to London buses for many decades?
Havent a clue....
but when you think of all the technology that exists (fluid flywheels, pre-engaged systems) from the late 20's 30's......on which the patents have lapsed...so the mechanisms & ideas con be openly re-used to choose from.
Plus the fact there already was plenty of specialist gear box systems to choose from (Borg-Warner, ZF, Getrag, NVG......+ more.
What Audi / VW they did was a brave step...that has been very succesful...it is innovative as reagrdstwo shafts not two clutches....but seem to recall that Duesenberg / Cord / Auburn had something like this on one one pre select system......Duesenberg / Cord / Auburn...were the real innovators in automotive technology...many firsts that were taken up by others (including Rolls Royce) as many ideas werent patented.
Trawling through the patents library reveals many things from the past........interstingly BMW seem to hold the clutch on active suspension that was featured on Disco 2'sBREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
30th Sep 2011 9:47 am
abernanteagle
Member Since: 10 Aug 2011
Location: South Wales
Posts: 255
BLFarrar wrote:
Even die hard manual only drivers are converted to reality in DSG's.........Also seem mega reliable
I sold my Touran with DSG box a couple of months back with 125k miles on the clock. Absolutely no problems with the box throughout its life and still just as smooth and quick with the changes as ever. Just required 1 oil change at 100k miles. When I change the S60 in a couple of years I'll probably go for a golf/jetta with the dsg box - SWMBO can only drive autos.Dec 04 TDV6 HSE in Tonga green with Alpaca interior.
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